Matthew Kreilein 881422 Posted November 26, 2005 at 05:00 PM Posted November 26, 2005 at 05:00 PM Lemme add another PLEA for this from my position. I'm in charge of keeping our POF file up to date (for those of you who don't know, the POF file in ASRC defines position information, frequencies, etc. for ATC). In the NY area we've got EWR/PHL/LGA/JFK that all need DEL/GND/TWR/DEP/and APP freqs. We use real world sectorization so we've got 5 APP freqs for LaGuardia TRACON (EMPYR, HAARP, NOBBI, and FINAL app). Same deal for EWR/JFK/PHL. Multiple sectors. Basically...I'm running out of frequencies!!! PHL/EWR are separated by only 70 nm and both have a DEL freq of 118.85 so when you're DEL and have your "range" up to 100 nm and so does EWR DEL...SB3 isn't "smart" enough to figure out which 118.85 you want. Our freq for Final App at KLGA is 134.90...that's also Cleveland Center's frequency. When CTR NEEDS that 400-600 nm range it bleeds over into KLGA and we had pilots calling LGA APP on 134.90 only to have an irritated Cleveland CTR tell him he was on the wrong freq (my apologies Cleveland). We've changed our KLGA Final App freq as we're NOT gonna ask Cleveland Center to change, but it can stilll get ugly...especially in the middle of a fly-in Keeping that range appropriate SHOULD keep that from happening...right? Matthew Kreilein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Clausen Posted November 26, 2005 at 05:32 PM Posted November 26, 2005 at 05:32 PM Keeping that range appropriate SHOULD keep that from happening...right? Simple answer is NOPE. Your visibiity range has no bearing on how the planes see you. This has been explained by the server gurus here, but the quickest answer is your visibility range to pilots is calculated based on your position ID (center, approach, etc) and your visibility center. This stuff is not configurable by the end user, as the server forces the issue on their end. Fred Clausen, vZAB ATM ZAB real life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Mifsud 928114 Posted November 26, 2005 at 06:02 PM Posted November 26, 2005 at 06:02 PM Last night TGIF came to DTW and all the controllers had their range settings set right. And we had no server crashes. That could have been the range settings or just the new servers but something helped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Bartolotta 912967 Posted November 26, 2005 at 06:32 PM Posted November 26, 2005 at 06:32 PM Last night TGIF came to DTW and all the controllers had their range settings set right. And we had no server crashes. That could have been the range settings or just the new servers but something helped! I was flying on the J146 to LGA, and I had a few Tower and Grounds from DTW even as I was p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing near CLE... Nick Bartolotta - ZSE Instructor, pilot at large "Just fly it on down to within a inch of the runway and let it drop in from there." - Capt. Don Lanham, ATA Airlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted November 26, 2005 at 07:21 PM Posted November 26, 2005 at 07:21 PM Last night TGIF came to DTW and all the controllers had their range settings set right. And we had no server crashes. That could have been the range settings or just the new servers but something helped! I was flying on the J146 to LGA, and I had a few Tower and Grounds from DTW even as I was p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing near CLE... Again, controller visibility range does not affect when you show up for pilots. It only affects the number of aircraft visible on the controller's scope, thus the amount of bandwidth the controller consumes. Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Catherwood 903683 Posted November 26, 2005 at 11:48 PM Posted November 26, 2005 at 11:48 PM Part of the problem which should be solved (or reduced quite a bit) by the multi-repeater setup on sectors is that we as controllers have to set our range towards the center of the sector, but at the same time the range must be set so we can "see" the border of the farthest point from the middle + about 20nm to accept handoffs. Yet when this happens, we also go quite a bit out into other sectors. For example, for Seattle center I set my visibility to about 400nm which just reach the extreme NE and SW corners of the sector. Yet at the same time, due to how the airspace is set, I see a good 200nm of Salt Lake center's airspace. With the repeaters the over-coverage of other sectors can be reduced, while still reaching the far-out sections of the home sector. KZSE C3/Facilities Administrator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alejo Ellero 932833 Posted January 12, 2006 at 03:03 PM Posted January 12, 2006 at 03:03 PM Few days ago, a supervisor call me ASRC when i was controlling in Argentina, asking me to reduce my visibility range; so I did it, with no complain. The problem was that I never knew that rule. In my tutorials and manual I´d never seen some topic related to the adjustment of the visiblity range, so it should be very usefull to notify this recomendation by NOTAM. Thanks for your attention, and sorry for muy english... Alejo. Alejo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavis Walters 919400 Posted July 14, 2006 at 11:30 PM Posted July 14, 2006 at 11:30 PM My two penneth on ranges is that they should be set with a little judgement with regards to position. Hence: DEL/GND 10NM TWR 20NM APP 40-60NM CTR or TMA positions need to se their ranges according to the amount of airpace that they control. The same applies to APP. If we can save on bandwidth, it will stop crashes and dlowdowns on the network Regards Tavis Walters S3 Midlands RTS Vatsim UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nader Hassan 948727 Posted October 18, 2006 at 01:49 AM Posted October 18, 2006 at 01:49 AM thanks for the info, evan thoe my instructer told me this when training. www.msrvirtual.com The new Egypt Air virtual airlines Come fly with us and discover what you havent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud op de Weegh 851729 Posted November 10, 2006 at 02:18 PM Posted November 10, 2006 at 02:18 PM Hello everybody, Controllers, When logging in please be sure to set the appropriate visibility range for the position you are manning. General rule: 10-20 nm for DEL/GND 30-50 nm for TWR 100-150 nm for APP/DEP 300-600 nm for CTR It is a logical thing...sure. But as observer of a Center position I had my range at the same range as a Center controller. It did not take long before some guy asked me to reduce to 40 nm. But how can I observe a Center Controller at this range? So nobody wrote about the observer range. Please advise for which I thank you in advance. Kind regards, Ruud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Cannata 811277 Posted November 10, 2006 at 07:55 PM Posted November 10, 2006 at 07:55 PM Observers range should match the area that they are watching. When watching a huge CTR/FIR sector, with the new ASRC and VRC you can set up multiple visibility points .vis .vis2 .vis3 and space them around your sector file. Be sure to reduce the size of your range from 600nm to that which is appropriate. Aaron "AX" Cannata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud op de Weegh 851729 Posted November 12, 2006 at 10:51 AM Posted November 12, 2006 at 10:51 AM Observers range should match the area that they are watching. When watching a huge CTR/FIR sector, with the new ASRC and VRC you can set up multiple visibility points .vis .vis2 .vis3 and space them around your sector file. Be sure to reduce the size of your range from 600nm to that which is appropriate. Aaron "AX" Cannata Thanks for your reply, but I am looking for an official VATSIM docomeent about this. As I was ordered to reduce my range to 40nm observing the TNCF FIR I was not able to observe anymore. I use to have my range to max 400nm as observer for the whole FIR as well as for controlling as Center Kind regards, Ruud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Richards Posted June 28, 2007 at 04:03 AM Posted June 28, 2007 at 04:03 AM Fellow Controllers: Probably time to BUMP this posting again to remind Controllers about checking their range settings. I had just over two hours online this morning as NZCH_A_CTR but was conducting SUP checks at the same time and asked no fewer than 38 Controllers to reduce their range settings. What is not mentioned is that OBS (including Instructors, ATMS, etc) should ideally not need more than 300nm range settings. Reducing range settings really help to reduce bandwidth and therefore cost to the members who provide the servers free of charge for us all to enjoy! Thanks in advance Mark Mark Richards (811451) Auckland, New Zealand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Caban 844086 Posted January 25, 2008 at 03:19 AM Posted January 25, 2008 at 03:19 AM Can we have this stuff posted in a policy section somewhere? I was told the limit for APP was 200 by a member of VATUSA. I had my settings at 160 and was asked to reduce it to 150 on a night where there were a total of 338 members connected to VATSIM. It is obvious that know one really knows where to find this one forum post. If this is the official "policy" I will make sure we have it correctly reflected on our website and training materials. Regards, JX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Mathieu 998318 Posted January 25, 2008 at 03:37 AM Posted January 25, 2008 at 03:37 AM I have been guilty before manning an app position with my center settings. I have now setup VRC for each position that I work so I am straight with the vis ranges when I log on Best Regards, Thomas Mathieu VATAME1 Region Director VATSIM Africa Middle East http://www.vatame.net [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ogrodowski 876322 Posted January 25, 2008 at 03:58 AM Posted January 25, 2008 at 03:58 AM Can we have this stuff posted in a policy section somewhere? I was told the limit for APP was 200 by a member of VATUSA. I had my settings at 160 and was asked to reduce it to 150 on a night where there were a total of 338 members connected to VATSIM. It is obvious that know one really knows where to find this one forum post. If this is the official "policy" I will make sure we have it correctly reflected on our website and training materials. Maybe that's necessary. It's always just been managed by local facilities. In my five years with ZOB, we have always taught and posted the Radar ranges necessary to control any of our facilities. It's not a policy...it's just a decency thing (to minimize any excess strain on the server) (unless people do consider this Sticky a policy). The only problem with setting a "global" policy is that it can vary from place to place. All you could really do with a Global policy is say "Each Division shall ensure proper radar ranges be utilized by local ATC. Because of all the possible range needs by any given facility, all actual values shall be set by each local facility." For instance, your APP necessity might be 160-200NM. At any single APP facility here at KZOB, the most you need is 90-100 tops (that's even to have enough lead time to accept handoffs). I would never tell any of our APP controllers that it's okay to have a range higher than 110 miles (I recommend 95 miles anyways). Not that it matters very much when we only have 340 members online...it gets a lot more important I think upwards of 450 to 500. Consistency, though...we should always pay attention to this. I know that when I switch positions using ASRC I don't always pay attention to it. VRC makes it easier because I can save each profile for each position. Steve Ogrodowski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Gustin 940540 Posted January 25, 2008 at 04:27 AM Posted January 25, 2008 at 04:27 AM Yea I was bumped today after trying to configure my Eurocenter Profile on VRC. Thing calls for 600nm range......... Daniel Gustin VATEUD3 -Training Director Pilots Come on kids! The more forum posts you have, the better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Cannata 811277 Posted January 28, 2008 at 09:50 PM Posted January 28, 2008 at 09:50 PM Plus remember there is a bug in the server that Ross Carlson is trying to track down that will sometimes show LAX TWR on the Controllers List on the other side of the world. It's NOT a range issue. It's a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Evans Posted January 28, 2008 at 11:10 PM Posted January 28, 2008 at 11:10 PM That bug only manifests when the servers split & reconnect.. it's a byproduct of the servers trying to resync with each other. Mike Evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Samson 1070087 Posted January 6, 2009 at 10:45 PM Posted January 6, 2009 at 10:45 PM How much bandwidth does a 10 mile vis range compared to a 300 mile vis range use? How much $$$ does it cost vatsim for a controller with a 50 mile vis range over 1 hour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted January 7, 2009 at 04:45 AM Posted January 7, 2009 at 04:45 AM How much bandwidth does a 10 mile vis range compared to a 300 mile vis range use? How much $$$ does it cost vatsim for a controller with a 50 mile vis range over 1 hour? It depends entirely on how much traffic there is in the visible area. Why do you ask? Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Samson 1070087 Posted January 7, 2009 at 04:48 AM Posted January 7, 2009 at 04:48 AM It depends entirely on how much traffic there is in the visible area. Why do you ask? I just think its interesting, and I bet that if everyone knew that every plane they saw cost vatsim $00.0001 or whatever the cost is, people might start to lower their visrange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Heaney 879309 Posted January 7, 2009 at 04:51 AM Posted January 7, 2009 at 04:51 AM People ARE lowering their VIS Range, and VATSIM IS Enforcing it too. We need to work together, on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Cannata 811277 Posted January 9, 2009 at 06:03 PM Posted January 9, 2009 at 06:03 PM That bug only manifests when the servers split & reconnect.. it's a byproduct of the servers trying to resync with each other. Is it just me, or does the bug still exist? I still, to this date, see controllers from halfway around the world when I'm controlling at ZLA. And I can't imagine a range of 600nm can accomplish all that. Is VRC version 1.2.1 the latest? Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted January 9, 2009 at 09:09 PM Posted January 9, 2009 at 09:09 PM That bug only manifests when the servers split & reconnect.. it's a byproduct of the servers trying to resync with each other. Is it just me, or does the bug still exist? I still, to this date, see controllers from halfway around the world when I'm controlling at ZLA. And I can't imagine a range of 600nm can accomplish all that. Is VRC version 1.2.1 the latest? Thanks for your help. Yes, it still exists. It's not a VRC bug, so the VRC version doesn't matter. (It's a server bug.) Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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