Logic For Sector/Sectorline ON/OFF

[Rob Killins 897126]

OK ... I hope someone is able to provide me some logic [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance ... even more important first is my ability to explain.

 

Here is the scenario.

Our sector layout: CZWG_CTR is used when only one enroute controller is online. This sector covers the entire FIR. This primary sector is broken up into 4 smaller enroute subsectors: ZWG_BR_CTR, ZWG_VC_CTR, ZWG_NL_CTR ZWG_FL_CTR. These sectors of course have smaller sectors within them ... control zones, terminal areas etc.

We wish to illuminate the sector lines of our adjacent online sectors, as well as illumination of our respective sector as we're controlling it.

 

Suppose CZWG_CTR is online controlling (C1), and a second enroute controller (C2) comes along to control. He will log into one of the 4 enroute subsectors, we'll [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume ZWG_BR_CTR. Controller covering is now C2 controlling 1 of the 4 subsectors, and C1 controlling the remaining 3 subsectors making up his original CZWG_CTR. As additional enroute controllers log in, C1 will lose those sectors of responsibility.

 

What we would like to happen is this. C2 sector will illuminate for C2, and the sectorlines of the adjoining 3 sectors being controlled now by C1 will illuminate. This is happening now with C2. However, what is not happening, that we would like to happen, is C2's sector remains illuminated on C1's display. As C1 is no longer responsible for that subsector, it shouldn't be illuminated anymore. Can this be overcome?

 

Additionally, when C1 is online, and C2 logs into a subsector ... the uncontrolled CZ and Terminal sectors within his subsector has their sector lines illuminated, which is unnecessary as C2 is responsible for these smaller sectors in the absence pf their respective controllers. Only when there is a controller for these smaller sections do they need to be illuminated to indicate a handoff. The odd thing is, if it is only the subsector on, and CZWG_CTR is offline, these smaller illuminate sector lines turn off. No smaller sector sector lines illuminate within CZWG_CTR when just he alone is controlling.

 

[POSITIONS]

CZWG_CTR:Winnipeg Centre:124.000:ZGC:WC:CZWG:CTR:-:-:0600:0677:N048.49.30.000:W091.34.42.000:N055.13.18.000:W085.00.00.000:N050.17.48.000:W107.41.30.000:N051.15.48.000:W102.28.06.000
CZWG_FSS:Winnipeg FSS:126.700:ZGR:WR:CZWG:CTR:-:-:-:-:N048.49.30.000:W091.34.42.000:N055.13.18.000:W085.00.00.000:N050.17.48.000:W107.41.30.000:N051.15.48.000:W102.28.06.000 
CZWG_LO:Winnipeg Prairie Centre:119.800:ZGA:WA:CZWG:CTR:-:-:5200:5277:N048.49.30.000:W091.34.42.000:N055.13.18.000:W085.00.00.000:N050.17.48.000:W107.41.30.000:N051.15.48.000:W102.28.06.000 

CZWG_BR:Winnipeg Broadview Centre:135.170:ZBR:WB:ZWG:CTR:-:-:0600:0619:N051.09.28.200:W102.38.11.400
CZWG_FL:Winnipeg Falcon Lake Centre:132.200:ZFL:WF:ZWG:CTR:-:-:0620:0639:N049.55.18.600:W091.55.46.800
CZWG_VC:Winnipeg LaRonge Centre:135.620:ZVC:WV:ZWG:CTR:-:-:0640:0659:N055.47.17.400:W098.12.14.400
CZWG_NL:Winnipeg North Lower Centre:133.100:ZNL:WN:ZWG:CTR:-:-:0660:0677

CZWG_DEL:Winnipeg Clearance:121.300:WGC:GC:CYWG:DEL:-:-:5100:5177:N049:55:00.650:W097.13.37.340
CZWG_GND:Winnipeg Ground:121.900:WGG:GG:CYWG:GND:-:-:5160:5177:N049:55:00.650:W097.13.37.340
CZWG_TWR:Winnipeg Tower:118.300:WGT:GT:CYWG:TWR:-:-:5160:5177:N049:54:36.000:W097.14.247.000:N050.03.22.200:W097.01.57.000:N049.58.50.750:W097.12.14.540 ;CYWG CYAV WGCZ
CZWG_DEP:Winnipeg Departure:119.900:WGD:GD:CYWG:DEP:-:-:2060:2077:N049:54:36.000:W097.14.247.000:N049:54:36.000:W097.14.247.000:N050.03.22.200:W097.01.57.000:N049:54:11:400:W098.16.25.800 ;WGAPP-CYWG-CYAV-CYPG
CZWG_APP:Winnipeg Approach:119.500:WGA:GA:CYWG:APP:-:-:4700:4777:N049:54:36.000:W097.14.247.000:N049:54:36.000:W097.14.247.000:N050.03.22.200:W097.01.57.000:N049:54:11:400:W098.16.25.800 ;WGAPP-CYWG-CYAV-CYPG

CYQT_GND:Thunder Bay Ground:121.900:QTG:TG:CYQT:GND:-:-:5201:5247:N048.22.10.080:W089.19.20.190 ;CYQT
CYQT_TWR:Thunder Bay Tower:119.900:QTT:TT:CYQT:TWR:-:-:7140:7157:N048.22.10.080:W089.19.20.190:N048.22.10.080:W089.19.20.190 ;CYQT QTCZ
CYQT_APP:Thunder Bay Approach:119.200:QTA:TA:CYQT:APP:-:-:7100:7137:N048.29.02.220:W089.20.55.390:N048.22.10.080:W089.19.20.190 ;QTTCA CYQT

CYQR_GND:Regina Ground:121.900:QRG:RG:CYQR:GND:-:-:5250:5277:N050.25.39.430:W104.39.28.140 ;CYQR
CYQR_TWR:Regina Tower:118.600:QRT:RT:CYQR:TWR:-:-:2040:2057:N050.25.39.430:W104.39.28.140 ;CYQR
CYQR_APP:Regina Approach:120.100:QRA:RA:CYQR:APP:-:-:2010:2037:N050.27.13.880:W104.36.13.510:N050.19.49.000:w105.33.32.000 ;CYQR CYMJ

CYXE_GND:Saskatoon Ground:121.900:XEG:EG:CYXE:GND:-:-:5301:5347:N052.09.53.880:W106.41.51.080
CYXE_TWR:Saskatoon Tower:118.300:XET:ET:CYXE:TWR:-:-:1140:1157:N052.09.53.880:W106.41.51.080
CYXE_APP:Saskatoon Approach:119.900:XEA:EA:CYXE:APP:-:-:1100:1137:N052.05.31.480:W106.42.08.290


[AIRSPACE]

;S E C T O R L I N E S

SECTORLINE:E10 ;Falcon Lake/KMSP (Minneapolis)
DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:KMPS_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:KMSP_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:KMSP_CTR

SECTORLINE:E11 ;Broadview/KMSP (Minneapolis)
DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:KMSP_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:KMSP_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR:KMSP_CTR


SECTORLINE:E12 ;Broadview/KZLC (Salt Lake)
DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:KZLC_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:KZLC_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR:KZLC_CTR


SECTORLINE:E13 ;Broadview/Edmonton
DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CZEG_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZEG_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZEG_CTR


SECTORLINE:E14 ;LaRonge/Edmonton
DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CYEG_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZEG_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZEG_CTR


SECTORLINE:E15 ;North Lower/Edmonton
DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CYEG_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZEG_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZEG_CTR


SECTORLINE:E16 ;North Lower/Montreal
DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CZUL_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZUL_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZUL_CTR


SECTORLINE:E17 ;North Lower/Toronto
DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CZYZ_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZYZ_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZYZ_CTR


SECTORLINE:E18 ;Falcon Lake/Toronto
DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CZYZ_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZYZ_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZYZ_CTR


;INTERNAL
;------------------------------------------
SECTORLINE:I20 ;Falcon Lake/North Lower
DISPLAY:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR

;SECTORLINE:I21 ;Falcon Lake/Broadview
DISPLAY:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR

SECTORLINE:I22 ;North Lower/LaRonge
DISPLAY:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_VC_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR

SECTORLINE:I23 ;Broadview/LaRonge
DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_VC_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR

SECTORLINE:I24 ;Broadview/Falcon Lake
DISPLAY:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:BZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR

SECTORLINE:WGCZ ;Winnipeg Control Zone
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:AVCZ ; St. Andrews CZ
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:PGCZ ; Portage CZ
;DISPLAY:Not displayed


SECTORLINE:WGTCA ;Winnipeg Terminal
DISPLAY:CYWG_DEP:CYWG_DEP:CZWG_FL_CTR
DISPLAY:CYWG_APP:CYWG_APP:CZWG-FL-CTR
DISPLAY:CYWG_DEP:CYWG_DEP:CZWG_A_CTR
DISPLAY:CYWG_APP:CYWG_APP:CZWG-A-CTR
DISPLAY:CYWG_DEP:CYWG_DEP:CZWG_CTR
DISPLAY:CYWG_APP:CYWG_APP:CZWG_CTR
DISPLAY:CYWG_DEP:CYWG_DEP:CZWG_RDO
DISPLAY:CYWG_APP:CYWG_APP:CZWG_RDO

SECTORLINE:QTCZ ; Thunder Bay Control Zone
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:QTTCA ; Thunder Bay TCA
DISPLAY:CYQT_APP:CYQT_APP:CZWG-FL-CTR
DISPLAY:CYQT_APP:CYQT_APP:CZWG-A-CTR
DISPLAY:CYQT_APP:CYQT_APP:CZWG_CTR
DISPLAY:CYQT_APP:CYQT_APP:CZWG_RDO

SECTORLINE:QTTCA_S ; Thunder Bay TCA/Minneapolis
DISPLAY:CYQT_APP:CYQT_APP:KMSP_CTR

SECTORLINE:QRCZ ; Regina Control Zone
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:QRTCA ; Regina TCA
DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG-BR-CTR
DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG-A-CTR
DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG_CTR
DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG_RDO

SECTORLINE:XECZ ; Saskatoon Control Zone
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:XETCA ; Saskatoon TCA
DISPLAY:CYXE_APP:CYXE_APP:CZWG-BR-CTR
DISPLAY:CYXE_APP:CYXE_APP:CZWG-A-CTR
DISPLAY:CYXE_APP:CYXE_APP:CZWG_CTR
DISPLAY:CYXE_APP:CYXE_APP:CZWG_RDO

SECTORLINE:MJCZ ; Moose Jaw Control Zone
;DISPLAY:Not displayed


SECTORLINE:MJMTCA ; Moose Jaw MTCA
DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG-BR-CTR
DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG-A-CTR
DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG_CTR
DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG_RDO

;GATEWAYS ** (not for display) **
;--------------------------------------
SECTORLINE:KMSPGW ; Minneapolis Gateway
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:KZLCGW ; Salt Lake Gateway
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:CZEGGW ;Edmonton Gateway
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:CZULGW ; Montreal Gateway
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:CZYZGW ; Toronto Gateway
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

;S E C T O R S

;- -C-Y-W-G- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
SECTOR:CYWG_DEL:0:0
OWNER:WGC:WGG:WGT:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:WGCZ
DEPAPT:CYWG
ARRAPT:CYWG

SECTOR:CYWG_GND:0:0
OWNER:WGG:WGT:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:WGCZ
DEPAPT:CYWG
ARRAPT:CYWG

SECTOR:CYWG_TWR:0:3000
OWNER:WGT:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:WGCZ
DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV
ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV

SECTOR:CYAV_CZ:0:3000
OWNER:WGT:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:AVCZ
DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV
ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV

SECTOR:CYPG_CZ:0:3000
OWNER:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:PGCZ
DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV
ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV

SECTOR:CYWG_DEP:3000:23000
OWNER:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:WGTCA
DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV:CYPG
ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV:CYPAG

SECTOR:CYWG_APP:3000:23000
OWNER:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:WGTCA
DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV:CYPG
ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV:CYPG

;- -C-Y-Q-T- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
SECTOR:CYQT_GND:0:0
OWNER:QTG:QTT:QTA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:QTCZ
DEPAPT:CYQT
ARRAPT:CYQT

SECTOR:CYQT_TWR:0:4000
OWNER:QTT:QTA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:QTCZ
DEPAPT:CYQT
ARRAPT:CYQT

SECTOR:CYQT_APP:4000:23000
OWNER:QTA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:QTTCA:QTTCA_S
DEPAPT:CYQT
ARRAPT:CYQT

;- -C-Y-Q-R- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
SECTOR:CYQR_GND:0:0
OWNER:QRG:QRT:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:QRCZ
DEPAPT:CYQR
ARRAPT:CYQR

SECTOR:CYQR_TWR:0:5000
OWNER:QRT:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:QRCZ
DEPAPT:CYQR
ARRAPT:CYQR

SECTOR:CYQR_APP:5000:23000
OWNER:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:QRTCA
DEPAPT:CYQR:CYMJ
ARRAPT:CYQR:CYMJ

;- -C-Y-X-E- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
SECTOR:CYXE_TWR:0:0000
OWNER:XEG:XET:XEA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:XECZ
DEPAPT:CYQR
ARRAPT:CYQR

SECTOR:CYXE_TWR:0:5000
OWNER:XEG:XET:XEA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:XECZ
DEPAPT:CYQR
ARRAPT:CYQR

SECTOR:CYXE_APP:5000:23000
OWNER:XEA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:XETCA
DEPAPT:CYQR
ARRAPT:CYQR

;- -C-Y-M-J- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
SECTOR:CYMJ_GND:0:0
OWNER:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:MJCZ
DEPAPT:CYMJ
ARRAPT:CYMJ

SECTOR:CYMJ_TWR:0:0
OWNER:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:MJMTCA
DEPAPT:CYMJ:CYQR
ARRAPT:CYMJ:CYQR

SECTOR:CYMJ_TWR:0:0
OWNER:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:MJMTCA
DEPAPT:CYMJ:CYQR
ARRAPT:CYMJ:CYQR

;- -I-N-T-E-R-N-A-L- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

SECTOR:CZWG_FL_CTR:0:65000
OWNER:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E10:I24:I20:E18

SECTOR:CZWG_BR_CTR:0:65000
OWNER:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E11:E12:E13:I23:I24

SECTOR:CZWG_VC_CTR:0:65000
OWNER:ZVC:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E14:I22:I23

SECTOR:CZWG_NL_CTR:0:65000
OWNER:ZNL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E15:E16:E17:I20:I22

;- -W-I-D-E- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

SECTOR:CZWG_CTR:0:65000
OWNER:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E10:E11:E12:E13:E14:E15:E16:E17:E18

SECTOR:CZWG_RDO:0:65000
OWNER:ZGR
BORDER:E10:E11:E12:E13:E14:E15:E16:E17:E18

SECTOR:CZWG_A_CTR:23000:28000
OWNER:ZGA:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E10:E11:E12:E13:E14:E15:E16:E17:E18

SECTOR:KMSP_CTR:0:60000
OWNER:SP11:SP10
Border:E10:E11:KMSPGW

SECTOR:KZLC_CTR:0:60000
OWNER:LCN:LCS:LCE:LCE2
Border:E12:KZLCGW

SECTOR:CZEG_CTR:0:60000
OWNER:EGC:EGN:EGW:EGE:EGA
Border:E13:E14:E15:CZEGGW

SECTOR:CZUL_CTR:0:60000
OWNER:ULC:ULN:ULW:ULE
Border:E16:CZULGW

SECTOR:CZYZ_CTR:0:60000
OWNER:YZC:YZN:YZS:YZE:YZW
Border:E17:E18:CZYZGW

 

Keep in mind I'm learning, so I apologize if I'm frustrating you folks. This is the only resource to clarify unclear information, so I ask for your patience.

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

hm, you don't need

SECTOR:CZWG_CTR:0:65000

OWNER:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:E10:E11:E12:E13:E14:E15:E16:E17:E18

 

SECTOR:CZWG_RDO:0:65000

OWNER:ZGR

BORDER:E10:E11:E12:E13:E14:E15:E16:E17:E18

 

If I understand you correctly, CZWG consists of the four subsectors, so all four subsectors together are CZWG. So you can just delete that, it will work with just the subsectors.

 

Concerning the borders, remove the display lines with CZWG_CTR and it should be fine, and if you remove CZWG_CTR and _RDO in general, you need to remove those lines as well.

[Rob Killins 897126]

Hi Stephan, thank you for your help.

 

If I understood correctly with what you were suggesting I have ...

 

1) removed the CZWG_CTR and CZWG_RDO sectors from the ESE

2) removed all references to these sectors in any sectorline definitions

 

Being logged in as CZWG_CTR, the entire sector illuminates appropriately. However, when logging in as any one of the 4 subsectors, they no longer illuminate, or display or display any borders with adjacent controllers online.

 

[POSITIONS]

 

CZWG_CTR:Winnipeg Centre:124.000:ZGC:WC:CZWG:CTR:-:-:0600:0677

CZWG_FSS:Winnipeg FSS:126.700:ZGR:WR:CZWG:CTR:-:-:-:-

CZWG_LO:Winnipeg Prairie Centre:119.800:ZGA:WA:CZWG:CTR:-:-:5200:5277

 

CZWG_BR:Winnipeg Broadview Centre:135.170:ZBR:WB:ZWG:CTR:-:-:0600:0619

CZWG_FL:Winnipeg Falcon Lake Centre:132.200:ZFL:WF:ZWG:CTR:-:-:0620:0639

CZWG_VC:Winnipeg LaRonge Centre:135.620:ZVC:WV:ZWG:CTR:-:-:0640:0659

CZWG_NL:Winnipeg North Lower Centre:133.100:ZNL:WN:ZWG:CTR:-:-:0660:0677

 

CZWG_DEL:Winnipeg Clearance:121.300:WGC:GC:CYWG:DEL:-:-:5100:5177

CZWG_GND:Winnipeg Ground:121.900:WGG:GG:CYWG:GND:-:-:5160:5177

CZWG_TWR:Winnipeg Tower:118.300:WGT:GT:CYWG:TWR:-:-:5160:5177

CZWG_DEP:Winnipeg Departure:119.900:WGD:GD:CYWG:DEP:-:-:2060:2077

CZWG_APP:Winnipeg Approach:119.500:WGA:GA:CYWG:APP:-:-:4700:4777

 

CYQT_GND:Thunder Bay Ground:121.900:QTG:TG:CYQT:GND:-:-:5201:5247

CYQT_TWR:Thunder Bay Tower:119.900:QTT:TT:CYQT:TWR:-:-:7140:7157

CYQT_APP:Thunder Bay Approach:119.200:QTA:TA:CYQT:APP:-:-:7100:7137

 

CYQR_GND:Regina Ground:121.900:QRG:RG:CYQR:GND:-:-:5250:5277

CYQR_TWR:Regina Tower:118.600:QRT:RT:CYQR:TWR:-:-:2040:2057

CYQR_APP:Regina Approach:120.100:QRA:RA:CYQR:APP:-:-:2010:2037

 

CYXE_GND:Saskatoon Ground:121.900:XEG:EG:CYXE:GND:-:-:5301:5347

CYXE_TWR:Saskatoon Tower:118.300:XET:ET:CYXE:TWR:-:-:1140:1157

CYXE_APP:Saskatoon Approach:119.900:XEA:EA:CYXE:APP:-:-:1100:1137

 

[AIRSPACE]

 

;S E C T O R L I N E S

 

SECTORLINE:E10 ;Falcon Lake/KMSP (Minneapolis)

;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:KMPS_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:KMSP_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:KMSP_CTR

 

SECTORLINE:E11 ;Broadview/KMSP (Minneapolis)

;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:KMSP_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:KMSP_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR:KMSP_CTR

 

SECTORLINE:E12 ;Broadview/KZLC (Salt Lake)

;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:KZLC_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:KZLC_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR:KZLC_CTR

 

SECTORLINE:E13 ;Broadview/Edmonton

;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CZEG_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZEG_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZEG_CTR

 

SECTORLINE:E14 ;LaRonge/Edmonton

;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CYEG_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZEG_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZEG_CTR

 

SECTORLINE:E15 ;North Lower/Edmonton

;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CYEG_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZEG_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZEG_CTR

 

SECTORLINE:E16 ;North Lower/Montreal

;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CZUL_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZUL_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZUL_CTR

 

SECTORLINE:E17 ;North Lower/Toronto

;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CZYZ_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZYZ_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZYZ_CTR

 

SECTORLINE:E18 ;Falcon Lake/Toronto

;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CZYZ_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZYZ_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZYZ_CTR

 

;INTERNAL

;------------------------------------------

SECTORLINE:I20 ;Falcon Lake/North Lower

DISPLAY:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR

 

;SECTORLINE:I21 ;Falcon Lake/Broadview

DISPLAY:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR

 

SECTORLINE:I22 ;North Lower/LaRonge

DISPLAY:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_VC_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR

 

SECTORLINE:I23 ;Broadview/LaRonge

DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_VC_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR

 

SECTORLINE:I24 ;Broadview/Falcon Lake

DISPLAY:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR

DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:BZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR

 

SECTORLINE:WGCZ ;Winnipeg Control Zone

;DISPLAY:Not displayed

 

SECTORLINE:AVCZ ; St. Andrews CZ

;DISPLAY:Not displayed

 

SECTORLINE:PGCZ ; Portage CZ

;DISPLAY:Not displayed

 

SECTORLINE:WGTCA ;Winnipeg Terminal

DISPLAY:CYWG_DEP:CYWG_DEP:CZWG_FL_CTR

DISPLAY:CYWG_APP:CYWG_APP:CZWG-FL-CTR

DISPLAY:CYWG_DEP:CYWG_DEP:CZWG_A_CTR

DISPLAY:CYWG_APP:CYWG_APP:CZWG-A-CTR

;DISPLAY:CYWG_DEP:CYWG_DEP:CZWG_CTR

;DISPLAY:CYWG_APP:CYWG_APP:CZWG_CTR

;DISPLAY:CYWG_DEP:CYWG_DEP:CZWG_RDO

;DISPLAY:CYWG_APP:CYWG_APP:CZWG_RDO

 

SECTORLINE:QTCZ ; Thunder Bay Control Zone

;DISPLAY:Not displayed

 

SECTORLINE:QTTCA ; Thunder Bay TCA

DISPLAY:CYQT_APP:CYQT_APP:CZWG-FL-CTR

DISPLAY:CYQT_APP:CYQT_APP:CZWG-A-CTR

;DISPLAY:CYQT_APP:CYQT_APP:CZWG_CTR

;DISPLAY:CYQT_APP:CYQT_APP:CZWG_RDO

 

SECTORLINE:QTTCA_S ; Thunder Bay TCA/Minneapolis

DISPLAY:CYQT_APP:CYQT_APP:KMSP_CTR

 

SECTORLINE:QRCZ ; Regina Control Zone

;DISPLAY:Not displayed

 

SECTORLINE:QRTCA ; Regina TCA

DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG-BR-CTR

DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG-A-CTR

;DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG_CTR

;DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG_RDO

 

SECTORLINE:XECZ ; Saskatoon Control Zone

;DISPLAY:Not displayed

 

SECTORLINE:XETCA ; Saskatoon TCA

DISPLAY:CYXE_APP:CYXE_APP:CZWG-BR-CTR

DISPLAY:CYXE_APP:CYXE_APP:CZWG-A-CTR

;DISPLAY:CYXE_APP:CYXE_APP:CZWG_CTR

;DISPLAY:CYXE_APP:CYXE_APP:CZWG_RDO

 

SECTORLINE:MJCZ ; Moose Jaw Control Zone

;DISPLAY:Not displayed

 

SECTORLINE:MJMTCA ; Moose Jaw MTCA

DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG-BR-CTR

DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG-A-CTR

;DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG_CTR

;DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG_RDO

 

;GATEWAYS ** (not for display) **

;--------------------------------------

SECTORLINE:KMSPGW ; Minneapolis Gateway

;DISPLAY:Not displayed

 

SECTORLINE:KZLCGW ; Salt Lake Gateway

;DISPLAY:Not displayed

 

SECTORLINE:CZEGGW ;Edmonton Gateway

;DISPLAY:Not displayed

 

SECTORLINE:CZULGW ; Montreal Gateway

;DISPLAY:Not displayed

 

SECTORLINE:CZYZGW ; Toronto Gateway

;DISPLAY:Not displayed

 

;S E C T O R S

 

;- -C-Y-W-G- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

SECTOR:CYWG_DEL:0:0

OWNER:WGC:WGG:WGT:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:WGCZ

DEPAPT:CYWG

ARRAPT:CYWG

 

SECTOR:CYWG_GND:0:0

OWNER:WGG:WGT:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:WGCZ

DEPAPT:CYWG

ARRAPT:CYWG

 

SECTOR:CYWG_TWR:0:3000

OWNER:WGT:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:WGCZ

DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV

ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV

 

SECTOR:CYAV_CZ:0:3000

OWNER:WGT:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:AVCZ

DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV

ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV

 

SECTOR:CYPG_CZ:0:3000

OWNER:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:PGCZ

DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV

ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV

 

SECTOR:CYWG_DEP:3000:23000

OWNER:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:WGTCA

DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV:CYPG

ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV:CYPAG

 

SECTOR:CYWG_APP:3000:23000

OWNER:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:WGTCA

DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV:CYPG

ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV:CYPG

 

;- -C-Y-Q-T- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

SECTOR:CYQT_GND:0:0

OWNER:QTG:QTT:QTA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:QTCZ

DEPAPT:CYQT

ARRAPT:CYQT

 

SECTOR:CYQT_TWR:0:4000

OWNER:QTT:QTA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:QTCZ

DEPAPT:CYQT

ARRAPT:CYQT

 

SECTOR:CYQT_APP:4000:23000

OWNER:QTA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:QTTCA:QTTCA_S

DEPAPT:CYQT

ARRAPT:CYQT

 

;- -C-Y-Q-R- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

SECTOR:CYQR_GND:0:0

OWNER:QRG:QRT:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:QRCZ

DEPAPT:CYQR

ARRAPT:CYQR

 

SECTOR:CYQR_TWR:0:5000

OWNER:QRT:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:QRCZ

DEPAPT:CYQR

ARRAPT:CYQR

 

SECTOR:CYQR_APP:5000:23000

OWNER:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:QRTCA

DEPAPT:CYQR:CYMJ

ARRAPT:CYQR:CYMJ

 

;- -C-Y-X-E- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

SECTOR:CYXE_TWR:0:0000

OWNER:XEG:XET:XEA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:XECZ

DEPAPT:CYQR

ARRAPT:CYQR

 

SECTOR:CYXE_TWR:0:5000

OWNER:XEG:XET:XEA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:XECZ

DEPAPT:CYQR

ARRAPT:CYQR

 

SECTOR:CYXE_APP:5000:23000

OWNER:XEA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:XETCA

DEPAPT:CYQR

ARRAPT:CYQR

 

;- -C-Y-M-J- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

SECTOR:CYMJ_GND:0:0

OWNER:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:MJCZ

DEPAPT:CYMJ

ARRAPT:CYMJ

 

SECTOR:CYMJ_TWR:0:0

OWNER:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:MJMTCA

DEPAPT:CYMJ:CYQR

ARRAPT:CYMJ:CYQR

 

SECTOR:CYMJ_TWR:0:0

OWNER:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:MJMTCA

DEPAPT:CYMJ:CYQR

ARRAPT:CYMJ:CYQR

 

;- -I-N-T-E-R-N-A-L- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

SECTOR:CZWG_FL_CTR:0:65000

OWNER:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:E10:I24:I20:E18

 

SECTOR:CZWG_BR_CTR:0:65000

OWNER:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:E11:E12:E13:I23:I24

 

SECTOR:CZWG_VC_CTR:0:65000

OWNER:ZVC:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:E14:I22:I23

 

SECTOR:CZWG_NL_CTR:0:65000

OWNER:ZNL:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:E15:E16:E17:I20:I22

 

;- -W-I-D-E- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

;SECTOR:CZWG_CTR:0:65000

;OWNER:ZGC:ZGR

;BORDER:E10:E11:E12:E13:E14:E15:E16:E17:E18

 

;SECTOR:CZWG_RDO:0:65000

;OWNER:ZGR

;BORDER:E10:E11:E12:E13:E14:E15:E16:E17:E18

 

SECTOR:CZWG_A_CTR:23000:28000

OWNER:ZGA:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:E10:E11:E12:E13:E14:E15:E16:E17:E18

 

SECTOR:KMSP_CTR:0:60000

OWNER:SP11:SP10

Border:E10:E11:KMSPGW

 

SECTOR:KZLC_CTR:0:60000

OWNER:LCN:LCS:LCE:LCE2

Border:E12:KZLCGW

 

SECTOR:CZEG_CTR:0:60000

OWNER:EGC:EGN:EGW:EGE:EGA

Border:E13:E14:E15:CZEGGW

 

SECTOR:CZUL_CTR:0:60000

OWNER:ULC:ULN:ULW:ULE

Border:E16:CZULGW

 

SECTOR:CZYZ_CTR:0:60000

OWNER:YZC:YZN:YZS:YZE:YZW

Border:E17:E18:CZYZGW

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

Of course you need to add the appropriate DISPLAY statements for the relevant subsectors.

[Rob Killins 897126]

Hi. I know Stephen what you're likely trtying to tell me is very obvious, but I have to plead ignorance on this.

 

DISPLAY ... if I understand correctly are commands used in sectorline definition to determine the conditions in which the particular sector lines illuminate. These sectorlines are in turn are used to define the borders of sectors. But, as I understand, by omitting the DISPLAY commands from sectorline definitions simply takes away the criteria to illuminate the lines and has no effect on border definition for the sectors. Regardless, all my subsectors (CZWG_FL_CTR, _VC_CTR, NL_CTR and BR CTRs) do have border line [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignments with defined sectorlines (I20-I24) set to be displayed. (And to be clear, I've omitted the co-ordinate information in my sectorline definition in my posts to obviously reduce post size).

 

I'm uncertian (ignorance) as to how (or where) DISPLAY plays a role in my sectors not illuminated when activated? The Position information is accurate and connects no problems and has not changed with any ammendments made as a result of this thread. Prior to the changes in this post, illumination of subsectors was OK with the exception of the bugs this thread presented.

 

Frustration aside, is their additional information or explanation that can be provided to help me see the flaw?

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

Being logged in as CZWG_CTR, the entire sector illuminates appropriately. However, when logging in as any one of the 4 subsectors, they no longer illuminate, or display or display any borders with adjacent controllers online.

The sector illuminates if it is active, and it is active if the POSITION definitions are correct and the OWNER of the sector is recognized by the primary frequency (or manual activation). If that does not work you need to check positions, owner and primary frequency. I did not see any obvious errors.

 

The borders are displayed for the relevant sectors with the DISPLAY statement. If you have a border between sector A and sector B, the display statement would be DISPLAY:A:A:B and DISPLAY:B:A:B. It does not matter if the sector is opened by one of the single CTRs or by the bandboxed one. ES checks only if the sector is owned by different controllers.

 

From what I can see, you already are on the right track, so you probably just need to get used to the fact, that it's not about the position opening the sector, it's just about the sectors. The perfect ESE file has no interlacing sectors whatsoever (which is quite hard to accomplish, if you don't have access to real-life sector data). Every piece of airspace is part of exactly one sector. Who controls those sectors is only determined by the owner definitions.

[Rob Killins 897126]

So, a sector that is not illuminating is a result of the position information being wrong ... the logged in frequency has to match a frequency in the positions section which in turn will illuminate the first sector encountered in which that position "owns".

 

So in my case, to illuminate CZWG_FL_CTR, a user must login with frequency 132.200. ES checks the POSITIONS section of the ESE for a match. If it finds a match, it [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umes the next value in the position definition as the owner of that frequency. In this case ... ZFL.

CZWG_FL:Winnipeg Falcon Lake Centre:132.200:ZFL:WF:ZWG:CTR:-:-:0620:0639

 

From there, starting at the first (and smallest) SECTOR definition,it looks for a match to the owner. The first match it finds, will result in that sector being illuminated? If I want CZWG_FL_CTR to illuminate, I must identify it as it's owner.

SECTOR:CZWG_FL_CTR:0:65000
OWNER:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E10:I24:I20:E18

 

Am I on the right page? So, if after logging in with 132.200, with the code I've provided, why would CZWG_FL_CTR not be illuminating? ZFL, the position [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated with 132.200 is the owner,the 1st position actually, for sector CZWG_FL_CTR. One of two things would have had to happen ... i) the user did not login with 132.200, or, ZFL isn't [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated with 132.200 in the POSITIONS section (which it does). I suppose the one question that comes to mind is does ES use the sector in which it finds the 1st instance of ZFL, or does it prioritize it based on where it finds it in the owner string? ie ... ZFL is #6 in the Winnipeg control zone sector, but number one for the Falcon Lake enroute sector. Will it choose the Falcon Lake sector 1st over the control zone sector since it is first rather than 6th, or will it choose the control zone first because that's where it first encountered ZFL?

 

Now, if my neighbouring sector is CZWG_BR_CTR, the sector line will illuminate under these conditions:

DISPLAY: CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR = I'm online in CZWG_FL_CTR, and CZWG_)FL_CTR is active, and my neighbour, CZWG_BR_CTR is online also. This sectorlinename must be in the border line of my secto code.

 

Most of this worked fine before I took away CZWG_CTR sector from the ESE, and any instances of this sector in the DISPLAY codes of the sector lines. I can't find the link between removing these and having lost the ability to illluminate my enroute sectors.

 

Hmmm. Hope I'm learning.

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

So, a sector that is not illuminating is a result of the position information being wrong ... the logged in frequency has to match a frequency in the positions section which in turn will illuminate the first sector encountered in which that position "owns".

A sector is illuminated when it is active. It is automatically activated, if the position is identified as owner by the primary frequency.

 

So in my case, to illuminate CZWG_FL_CTR, a user must login with frequency 132.200. ES checks the POSITIONS section of the ESE for a match. If it finds a match, it [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umes the next value in the position definition as the owner of that frequency. In this case ... ZFL.

CZWG_FL:Winnipeg Falcon Lake Centre:132.200:ZFL:WF:ZWG:CTR:-:-:0620:0639

 

From there, starting at the first (and smallest) SECTOR definition,it looks for a match to the owner. The first match it finds, will result in that sector being illuminated? If I want CZWG_FL_CTR to illuminate, I must identify it as it's owner.

SECTOR:CZWG_FL_CTR:0:65000
OWNER:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E10:I24:I20:E18

ZFL or ZGC or ZGR, with ZFL having priority over ZGC, and ZGC having priority over ZGR.

 

Am I on the right page? So, if after logging in with 132.200, with the code I've provided, why would CZWG_FL_CTR not be illuminating? ZFL, the position [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated with 132.200 is the owner,the 1st position actually, for sector CZWG_FL_CTR. One of two things would have had to happen ... i) the user did not login with 132.200, or, ZFL isn't [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated with 132.200 in the POSITIONS section (which it does). I suppose the one question that comes to mind is does ES use the sector in which it finds the 1st instance of ZFL, or does it prioritize it based on where it finds it in the owner string? ie ... ZFL is #6 in the Winnipeg control zone sector, but number one for the Falcon Lake enroute sector. Will it choose the Falcon Lake sector 1st over the control zone sector since it is first rather than 6th, or will it choose the control zone first because that's where it first encountered ZFL?

ES will always [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign the first match for every sector. If ZFL is online, he gets CZWG_FL_CTR. If he isn't and ZGC is online, then ZGC gets it, etc.

 

Now, if my neighbouring sector is CZWG_BR_CTR, the sector line will illuminate under these conditions:

DISPLAY: CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR = I'm online in CZWG_FL_CTR, and CZWG_)FL_CTR is active, and my neighbour, CZWG_BR_CTR is online also. This sectorlinename must be in the border line of my secto code.

Not exactly. The correct translation is: You are CZWG_FL_CTR (1st entry), and CZWG_FL_CTR (2nd) and EZWG_BR_CTR (3rd) have different owners. It doesn't matter if he is your neighbour, and it does not have to be your sector. The owners just have to be different (and of course online).

 

Most of this worked fine before I took away CZWG_CTR sector from the ESE, and any instances of this sector in the DISPLAY codes of the sector lines. I can't find the link between removing these and having lost the ability to illluminate my enroute sectors.

 

Hmmm. Hope I'm learning.

Then there's something else wrong with the sectors or positions or maybe sectorlines. Compare CZWG_CTR to the subsectors, there have to be differencies that explain the different behaviour. Imagine the sectors as a puzzle. You put them together, and you get the complete CZWG_CTR by the combination of all four.

 

Unfortunately as I said before, currently I don't have time to look at the file in details. If you can't find the problem and noone else has time, You will have to wait for three weeks.

[Rob Killins 897126]

Hi folks ...

 

Looks like I've found the flaw in my code for this situation ...

 

CZWG_FL:Winnipeg Falcon Lake Centre:132.200:ZFL:WF:ZWG:CTR:-:-:0620:0639:N049.55.18.600:W091.55.46.800/code]

 

I had to change field 6 from the incorrect CZWG to the correct ZWG. With CZWG, the position string was 11 characters ... exceeding VATSIM's max of 10 characters. Taking away the "C" and reducing the callsign to 10 characters matched the login callsign. I never thought to consider that.

 

All good until the next crisis ...

 

Thanks all, especially Stephen, for your support.

[Rob Killins 897126]

Hello all,

 

I am generally satisfied now that the worst of the illumination oversights have been resolved. However, one exists ... one that was part of my original post, that is more of an inconvenience than a functional limitation. There is a chance that my misunderstanding of how things actually work, and how I would expect them to work are two different things.

 

Let me use a small depiction of my sector...

 

Fig 1 - Shows the primary (wide) sector ... CTR. It is the first sector to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume control when an enroute controller logs in. It consists of 4 subsectors ... VC, NL, FL, BR.

When a primary controller logs in and [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umes control of CTR, all 4 sectors illuminate (grren). No problem.

 

 

Now, when a second enroute controller logs in, he logs in as one of the 4 available subsectors. In this example, we use VC.

Fig 2a - What I would hope would happen when Controller 1 still retains CTR, and controller 2 logs in as VC. VC is no longer illuminated, but the remaining 3 (the balance of CTR) do indicating control by Controller 1.

 

 

Fig 2b, illustrates the same scenario from Controller 2's view. VC is illuminated as it's under his authority, and the remaining three remain with the CTR controller.

 

 

This is not happening. Fig 2b happens for controller 2, but for CTR ... the entire CTR sector remains illuminated (Fig 1.) I would expect that as addition controllers login, that those subsectors would "de-illuminate" accordingly from Controller 1 (CTR)'s scope.

 

Am I looking for something to happen that doesn't? If what I expect is supposed to happen, what portion of the ESE needs to be reviewed?

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

What owners are indicated for the sectors in sector ownership dialog?

 

are the sectors completely lateral separated or are they overlapping somehow?

[Rob Killins 897126]

Hi Stephen ...

 

I cannot see where these sectors would have any overlap. Only the borders are shared. I wish I could provide an actual screenshot with borders and sectors illuminated, but don't have the resources here at work.

 

My sector line-up ...

SECTOR:CZWG_FL_CTR:0:65000
OWNER:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E10:I24:I20:E18

SECTOR:CZWG_BR_CTR:0:65000
OWNER:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E11:E12:E13:I23:I24

SECTOR:CZWG_VC_CTR:0:65000
OWNER:ZVC:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E14:I22:I23

SECTOR:CZWG_NL_CTR:0:65000
OWNER:ZNL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E15:E16:E17:I20:I22

 

My positions lineup...

CZWG_CTR:Winnipeg Centre:124.000:ZGC:WC:CZWG:CTR:-:-:-:-
CZWG_FSS:Winnipeg FSS:126.700:ZGR:WR:CZWG:CTR:-:-:-:-
CZWG_LO:Winnipeg Prairie Centre:119.800:ZGA:WA:CZWG:CTR:-:-:-:-

CZWG_BR:Winnipeg Broadview Centre:135.170:ZBR:WB:ZWG:CTR:-:-:-:-
CZWG_FL:Winnipeg Falcon Lake Centre:132.200:ZFL:WF:ZWG:CTR:-:-:-:-
CZWG_VC:Winnipeg LaRonge Centre:135.620:ZVC:WV:ZWG:CTR:-:-:-:-
CZWG_NL:Winnipeg North Lower Centre:133.100:ZNL:WN:ZWG:CTR:-:-:-:-

 

CZWG_CTR, CZWG_FSS and CZWG_LO are wide area positions which cover the same area comprised of the 4 subsectors.

CZWG_CTR and CZWG_LO are different only in altitudes, however, CZWG_CTR and CZWG_FSS are no different except in responsibilities. I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume this is a problem (unrelated to my initial problem).

 

Wow ... this can get confusing ... CZWG_LO on looking after all the airspace below 23000 (hmmmm ... I guess I need to define a sector for this?), with one or two subsectors looking after airspace above 23000 and CTR looking after the remaining subsectors above 23000.

 

As I said, from a subsector perspective, things seem to be working ok. Its only the CTR positions not displaying properly when subsectors are on. (Although not tested, I am [Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming the same will occur when the one or two terminal sectors are under control. I should think they whould be "de-illuminated" on CTR's, or the appropriate subsector, when they come on as well.)

 

Augh!!

 

Hope this helps ...

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

Illumination is just an inidicator for the sectors being active, so let's start talking about sector activity instead of illumination. You also did not answer my question about sector ownership.

 

Apart from that ...

 

The definitions for CZWG_CTR, FSS and LO are wrong, and all of them including the subs are missing their sqawk range.

 

CZWG_CTR:Winnipeg Centre:124.000:ZGC:WC:CZWG:CTR:-:-:-:- --> 11 letters, impossible callsign, probably does not matter because the middle letters are not used.

 

CZWG_FSS:Winnipeg FSS:126.700:ZGR:WR:CZWG:CTR:-:-:-:- --> same as above, and it's FSS, not CTR.

 

CZWG_LO:Winnipeg Prairie Centre:119.800:ZGA:WA:CZWG:CTR:-:-:-:- --> same as above.

 

But that's probably not the reason why it is not working.

[Rob Killins 897126]

Hey Stephen ... I do have the squak ranges set in my working file ... I just eliminated them in my post to save strain on ones eyes. So I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ure you, they are there. (they are shown in my previous posts)

 

The 11 letter callsigns have been corrected in my current working version. Now they are simply zwg_xx_ctr.

Will change CZWG_FSS from CTR to FSS.

 

The sectors are owned by those indicated in the "owner:" of the appropriate sector:

 

CZWG_FL_CTR (Falcon Lake)

OWNER:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR

(1)CZWG_FL; (2)CZWG_CTR, (3)CZWG_FSS

 

CZWG_BR_CTR (Broadview)

OWNER:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR

(1)CZWG_BR; (2)CZWG_CTR, (3)CZWG_FSS

 

CZWG_VC_CTR (LaRonge)

OWNER:ZVC:ZGC:ZGR

(1)CZWG_VC; (2)CZWG_CTR, (3)CZWG_FSS

 

CZWG_NL_CTR (North Lo)

OWNER:ZNL:ZGC:ZGR

(1)CZWG_NL; (2)CZWG_CTR, (3)CZWG_FSS

 

Does this help us track down a culprit?

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

Well, if it was that way, then everything should be fine and your problem should not be there. Did you check the ownership in the ownership dialog?

[Rob Killins 897126]

Hmmm ... interesting.

I didn't even know that existed to be making any changes, but nonetheless, deserves a peek.

 

Could the smaller sectors within the subsectors ... terminal and control zones ... have any cause to this problem?

 

For example, a terminal sector exists in CZWG_FL_CTR:

 

SECTOR:CYWG_APP:3000:23000

OWNER:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR ;(1) Winnipeg_Approach, (2) Falcon Lake, (3) Centre, (4) FSS

BORDER:WGTCA

DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV:CYPG

ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV:CYPG

 

CZWG_APP:Winnipeg Approach:119.500:WGA:GA:CYWG:APP:-:-:4700:4777

CZWG_DEP:Winnipeg Departure:119.900:WGD:GD:CYWG:DEP:-:-:2060:2077

 

and a control zone within it:

 

SECTOR:CYWG_TWR:0:3000

OWNER:WGT:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR; (1) Winnipeg Tower, (2) Winnipeg_Approach, (3) Falcon Lake, (4) Centre, (5) FSS

BORDER:WGCZ

DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV

ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV

 

CZWG_TWR:Winnipeg Tower:118.300:WGT:GT:CYWG:TWR:-:-:5160:5177

 

 

Just throwing that out there ....

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

No, they couldn't.

 

Next time you test it, check the owners in the dialog.

[Rob Killins 897126]

Not sure if this image helps matters ....

 

 

It is a screenshot of the FIR from the primary controller's (CZWG_CTR) display. The small activated sector to to left is CZWG_V_CTR (LaRonge CZWG_VC_CTR), the rest is being controlled by the primary controller. As you can see, despite CZWG_V_CTR being active, it is still showing up in the primary centre's display. It shouldn't be.

 

Notice the sector ownership dialogue is reflecting the proper ownership of all the sectors.

Actual ESE extract for someone with neutral eyes that may be able to find a subtle error.

 

[POSITIONS]

CZWG_CTR:Winnipeg Centre:124.000:ZGC:WC:CZWG:CTR:-:-:0600:0677:N048.49.30.000:W091.34.42.000:N055.13.18.000:W085.00.00.000:N050.17.48.000:W107.41.30.000:N051.15.48.000:W102.28.06.000
CZWG_FSS:Winnipeg FSS:126.700:ZGR:WR:CZWG:FSS:-:-:-:-:N048.49.30.000:W091.34.42.000:N055.13.18.000:W085.00.00.000:N050.17.48.000:W107.41.30.000:N051.15.48.000:W102.28.06.000 
CZWG_LO:Winnipeg Prairie Centre:119.800:ZGA:WA:CZWG:CTR:-:-:5200:5277:N048.49.30.000:W091.34.42.000:N055.13.18.000:W085.00.00.000:N050.17.48.000:W107.41.30.000:N051.15.48.000:W102.28.06.000 

CZWG_BR:Winnipeg Broadview Centre:135.170:ZBR:WB:CZWG:CTR:-:-:0600:0619:N051.09.28.200:W102.38.11.400
CZWG_FL:Winnipeg Falcon Lake Centre:132.200:ZFL:WF:CZWG:CTR:-:-:0620:0639:N049.55.18.600:W091.55.46.800
CZWG_VC:Winnipeg LaRonge Centre:135.620:ZVC:WV:CZWG:CTR:-:-:0640:0659:N055.47.17.400:W098.12.14.400
CZWG_NL:Winnipeg North Lower Centre:133.100:ZNL:WN:CZWG:CTR:-:-:0660:0677

CZWG_DEL:Winnipeg Clearance:121.300:WGC:GC:CYWG:DEL:-:-:5100:5177:N049:55:00.650:W097.13.37.340
CZWG_GND:Winnipeg Ground:121.900:WGG:GG:CYWG:GND:-:-:5160:5177:N049:55:00.650:W097.13.37.340
CZWG_TWR:Winnipeg Tower:118.300:WGT:GT:CYWG:TWR:-:-:5160:5177:N049:54:36.000:W097.14.247.000:N050.03.22.200:W097.01.57.000:N049.58.50.750:W097.12.14.540 ;CYWG CYAV WGCZ
CZWG_DEP:Winnipeg Departure:119.900:WGD:GD:CYWG:DEP:-:-:2060:2077:N049:54:36.000:W097.14.247.000:N049:54:36.000:W097.14.247.000:N050.03.22.200:W097.01.57.000:N049:54:11:400:W098.16.25.800 ;WGAPP-CYWG-CYAV-CYPG
CZWG_APP:Winnipeg Approach:119.500:WGA:GA:CYWG:APP:-:-:4700:4777:N049:54:36.000:W097.14.247.000:N049:54:36.000:W097.14.247.000:N050.03.22.200:W097.01.57.000:N049:54:11:400:W098.16.25.800 ;WGAPP-CYWG-CYAV-CYPG

[AIRSPACE]

;S E C T O R L I N E S

SECTORLINE:E10 ;Falcon Lake/KMSP (Minneapolis)
;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:KMPS_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:KMSP_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:KMSP_CTR

SECTORLINE:E11 ;Broadview/KMSP (Minneapolis)
DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:KMSP_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:KMSP_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR:KMSP_CTR

SECTORLINE:E12 ;Broadview/KZLC (Salt Lake)
;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:KZLC_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:KZLC_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR:KZLC_CTR

SECTORLINE:E14 ;LaRonge/Edmonton
;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CYEG_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZEG_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZEG_CTR

SECTORLINE:E15 ;North Lower/Edmonton
;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CYEG_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZEG_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZEG_CTR

SECTORLINE:E16 ;North Lower/Montreal
;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CZUL_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZUL_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZUL_CTR

SECTORLINE:E17 ;North Lower/Toronto
;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CZYZ_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZYZ_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZYZ_CTR

SECTORLINE:E18 ;Falcon Lake/Toronto
;DISPLAY:CZWG_CTR:CZWG_CTR:CZYZ_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_A_CTR:CZWG_A_CTR:CZYZ_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZYZ_CTR

;INTERNAL
;------------------------------------------
SECTORLINE:I20 ;Falcon Lake/North Lower
DISPLAY:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR

SECTORLINE:I22 ;North Lower/LaRonge
DISPLAY:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR:CZWG_VC_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZWG_NL_CTR

SECTORLINE:I23 ;Broadview/LaRonge
DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_VC_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZWG_VC_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR

SECTORLINE:I24 ;Broadview/Falcon Lake
DISPLAY:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR
DISPLAY:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_BR_CTR:CZWG_FL_CTR

SECTORLINE:WGCZ ;Winnipeg Control Zone
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:AVCZ ; St. Andrews CZ
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:PGCZ ; Portage CZ
;DISPLAY:Not displayed


SECTORLINE:WGTCA ;Winnipeg Terminal
DISPLAY:CYWG_DEP:CYWG_DEP:CZWG_FL_CTR
DISPLAY:CYWG_APP:CYWG_APP:CZWG-FL-CTR
DISPLAY:CYWG_DEP:CYWG_DEP:CZWG_A_CTR
DISPLAY:CYWG_APP:CYWG_APP:CZWG-A-CTR

SECTORLINE:QTCZ ; Thunder Bay Control Zone
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:QTTCA ; Thunder Bay TCA
DISPLAY:CYQT_APP:CYQT_APP:CZWG-FL-CTR
DISPLAY:CYQT_APP:CYQT_APP:CZWG-A-CTR

SECTORLINE:QTTCA_S ; Thunder Bay TCA/Minneapolis
DISPLAY:CYQT_APP:CYQT_APP:KMSP_CTR

SECTORLINE:QRCZ ; Regina Control Zone
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:XETCA ; Saskatoon TCA
DISPLAY:CYXE_APP:CYXE_APP:CZWG-BR-CTR
DISPLAY:CYXE_APP:CYXE_APP:CZWG-A-CTR

SECTORLINE:MJCZ ; Moose Jaw Control Zone
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:MJMTCA ; Moose Jaw MTCA
DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG-BR-CTR
DISPLAY:CYQR_APP:CYQR_APP:CZWG-A-CTR

;GATEWAYS ** (not for display) **
;--------------------------------------
SECTORLINE:KMSPGW ; Minneapolis Gateway
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:KZLCGW ; Salt Lake Gateway
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:CZEGGW ;Edmonton Gateway
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:CZULGW ; Montreal Gateway
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

SECTORLINE:CZYZGW ; Toronto Gateway
;DISPLAY:Not displayed

;S E C T O R S

;- -C-Y-W-G- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
SECTOR:CYWG_DEL:0:0
OWNER:WGC:WGG:WGT:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:WGCZ
DEPAPT:CYWG
ARRAPT:CYWG

SECTOR:CYWG_GND:0:0
OWNER:WGG:WGT:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:WGCZ
DEPAPT:CYWG
ARRAPT:CYWG

SECTOR:CYWG_TWR:0:3000
OWNER:WGT:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:WGCZ
DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV
ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV

SECTOR:CYAV_CZ:0:3000
OWNER:WGT:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:AVCZ
DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV
ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV

SECTOR:CYPG_CZ:0:3000
OWNER:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:PGCZ
DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV
ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV

SECTOR:CYWG_DEP:3000:23000
OWNER:WGD:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:WGTCA
DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV:CYPG
ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV:CYPAG

SECTOR:CYWG_APP:3000:23000
OWNER:WGA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:WGTCA
DEPAPT:CYWG:CYAV:CYPG
ARRAPT:CYWG:CYAV:CYPG

;- -C-Y-Q-T- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
SECTOR:CYQT_GND:0:0
OWNER:QTG:QTT:QTA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:QTCZ
DEPAPT:CYQT
ARRAPT:CYQT

SECTOR:CYQT_TWR:0:4000
OWNER:QTT:QTA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:QTCZ
DEPAPT:CYQT
ARRAPT:CYQT

SECTOR:CYQT_APP:4000:23000
OWNER:QTA:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:QTTCA:QTTCA_S
DEPAPT:CYQT
ARRAPT:CYQT

;- -C-Y-Q-R- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
SECTOR:CYQR_GND:0:0
OWNER:QRG:QRT:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:QRCZ
DEPAPT:CYQR
ARRAPT:CYQR

SECTOR:CYQR_TWR:0:5000
OWNER:QRT:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:QRCZ
DEPAPT:CYQR
ARRAPT:CYQR

SECTOR:CYQR_APP:5000:23000
OWNER:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:QRTCA
DEPAPT:CYQR:CYMJ
ARRAPT:CYQR:CYMJ

;- -C-Y-X-E- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
SECTOR:CYXE_TWR:0:0000
OWNER:XEG:XET:XEA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:XECZ
DEPAPT:CYQR
ARRAPT:CYQR

SECTOR:CYXE_TWR:0:5000
OWNER:XEG:XET:XEA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:XECZ
DEPAPT:CYQR
ARRAPT:CYQR

SECTOR:CYXE_APP:5000:23000
OWNER:XEA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:XETCA
DEPAPT:CYQR
ARRAPT:CYQR

;- -C-Y-M-J- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
SECTOR:CYMJ_GND:0:0
OWNER:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:MJCZ
DEPAPT:CYMJ
ARRAPT:CYMJ

SECTOR:CYMJ_TWR:0:0
OWNER:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:MJMTCA
DEPAPT:CYMJ:CYQR
ARRAPT:CYMJ:CYQR

SECTOR:CYMJ_TWR:0:0
OWNER:QRA:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:MJMTCA
DEPAPT:CYMJ:CYQR
ARRAPT:CYMJ:CYQR

;- -I-N-T-E-R-N-A-L- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

SECTOR:CZWG_FL_CTR:0:65000
OWNER:ZFL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E10:I24:I20:E18

SECTOR:CZWG_BR_CTR:0:65000
OWNER:ZBR:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E11:E12:E13:I23:I24

SECTOR:CZWG_VC_CTR:0:65000
OWNER:ZVC:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E14:I22:I23

SECTOR:CZWG_NL_CTR:0:65000
OWNER:ZNL:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E15:E16:E17:I20:I22

;- -W-I-D-E- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

;SECTOR:CZWG_CTR:0:65000
;OWNER:ZGC:ZGR
;BORDER:E10:E11:E12:E13:E14:E15:E16:E17:E18

;SECTOR:CZWG_RDO:0:65000
;OWNER:ZGR
;BORDER:E10:E11:E12:E13:E14:E15:E16:E17:E18

SECTOR:CZWG_A_CTR:23000:28000
OWNER:ZGA:ZGC:ZGR
BORDER:E10:E11:E12:E13:E14:E15:E16:E17:E18

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

Hm, the obvious reason would be CZWG_A_CTR. It seems to be CZWG_CTR just on a limited level-band. What is the purpose of that sector? If you need that level-band to have a different owner, you need to split the subsectors, not create one for the boxed version. ES only displays complete sectors. It can not split the sector for you, if part of a sector is overlapping to another sector. That's why you have to split it by using the smallest sector-pieces you need.

 

Split CZWG_A and try again.

 

And by the way, if it is correct that you own that level-band, then everything is correctly displayed. As long as you laterally own part of that airspace, it is displayed for you.

[Rob Killins 897126]

Hey Stephen, thanks for following this ... I'm not certian I understand what I need to do. Are you suggesting (I can't test at the moment) that if I were to remove CZWG_A_CTR that this problem should theoretically be resolved?

 

CZWG_CTR is our primary centre position. One centre controller logged in will take the entire sector of the 4 subsectors, ground to 65000'. When a second controller chooses to login, he has a choice ... choosing one of the 4 subsectors (ground to 65000'), leaving CTR with the remaining three (for which you're familiar with the scenario), OR, choosing to control CZWG_A_CTR. CZWG_A_CTR is a low enroute sector controlling everything (same geographical area at CTR) between 23000 and 28000', leaving CZWG_CTR to control all airspace above 28000'.

 

Perhaps I need to pursue 4 additional individual low enroute matching the same geographical areas as the others, but with different altitudes?

 

SECTOR:CZWG_LF_CTR:23000:28000

OWNER:ZGA:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:E10:I24:I20:E18

 

SECTOR:CZWG_LB_CTR:23000:28000

OWNER:ZGA:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:E11:E12:E13:I23:I24

 

SECTOR:CZWG_LC_CTR:23000:28000

OWNER:ZGA:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:E14:I22:I23

 

SECTOR:CZWG_LN_CTR:23000-28000

OWNER:ZGA:ZGC:ZGR

BORDER:E15:E16:E17:I20:I22

 

Should I be on the right path with this thinking, would I have to do the same for CZWG_FSS? It is wide and cover the same geographical area at CZWG_CTR, the only differences being their responsibilities within the sector?

 

I beginning to doubt that I've set up the altitudes properly in my sectors as its obvious I don't understand their relationship to each other. My terminal sectors cover from ground to 23000', and my tower zones ground to 4000'. Are sectors set up relative to the ground, or each other? (ie CZWG_A_ should be 0-28000 or 23000-28000, and CZWG_CTR and 4 subsectors be 28000-65000 or 0-65000'? My thinking is that if I don't make the sectors from ground up, they will lose control of terminal and tower sectors when they are't being coontrolled.)

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

Ok, so you have either the vertical or the horizontal split, so yes, instead of one _A_ sector you need four sectors for each subsector. It's no different to CZWG_CTR.

 

You main problem seems to be, that you are trying to convert your setup based on the controllers logging on, however it is much easier if you work it based on the sectors only, and then you just [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign those sectors to the relevant controllers. So you don't need any extra sectors for CZWG_FSS, since it does not use any other sectors than CZWG_CTR (which actually is a problem, because currently there is no way for ES to understand that both sectors might be online at the same time covering the same sectors. What exactly are their different responsibilities? Maybe you need an extra sector solely for _FSS.)

 

Concerning the altitutes, your current setup should work, as long as you make sure that the smaller sectors always come first in the ESE file. The altitutes are always based on the ground, so that should be ok. It very much depends on the real world's sector design. For example in Germany there usually are no interlacing sectors. There is not one sector inside another sector (maybe apart from tower CTRs), but there are several sectors that all together fill up the airspace. If you can recreate that, then there should be no more than one sector at one place. Other countries seem to have no such distinct use of the airspace but just put more smaller sectors into bigger ones. That's when you have to make sure they are in the right order in the ESE file. So it depends on your airspace, how you have to build it.

[Rob Killins 897126]

OK, great explanation Stephen.

 

I will create an additional 4 sectors for the low airspace, owned then by the same controller. If I understand correctly, I can set it's altitude range from the ground to it's ceiling, so 0-28000? And it's safe to keep CTR between 0 and 65000?

 

But now I'm concerned about how to handle FSS. This position covers the exact same area as CZWG_CTR, but controls traffic in and out of the FIR's smaller unstaffed airports. Again, CZWG_CTR adopts FSS responsibilities in the absence of a logged in FSS controller, but when both are online ... they share the same sector. I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume this is not possible. I was thinking I could eliminate the CZWG_FSS sector, but then I would not know how to set the ownership of the common CZWG_CTR sector.

 

Sorry for being a pain, but I think we're getting closer to a solid resolution.

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

I will create an additional 4 sectors for the low airspace, owned then by the same controller. If I understand correctly, I can set it's altitude range from the ground to it's ceiling, so 0-28000? And it's safe to keep CTR between 0 and 65000?

No, because you want it only from 23000 to 28000. And you can either do 0 - 65000 but then you have to put the 23000 - 28000 sector first, or you create three level bands, 0 - 23000, 23000 - 28000 and 28000 - 65000.

 

 

But now I'm concerned about how to handle FSS. This position covers the exact same area as CZWG_CTR, but controls traffic in and out of the FIR's smaller unstaffed airports. Again, CZWG_CTR adopts FSS responsibilities in the absence of a logged in FSS controller, but when both are online ... they share the same sector. I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume this is not possible. I was thinking I could eliminate the CZWG_FSS sector, but then I would not know how to set the ownership of the common CZWG_CTR sector.

 

Sorry for being a pain, but I think we're getting closer to a solid resolution.

Maybe not the solution you are looking for.

 

I've just done a bit reading here http://www.canairradio.com/fss.html and my understanding is, that your FSS (FIC) service is equivalent to FIS service in Germany, which means: it does not control traffic. It provides only advisory and information but no control service. From my understanding it's basically VFR traffic. I am not familiar with Canadian procedures, I don't know how often that station will be used and how you work that station. You can not have two stations with identical sectors and different responsibilities at the same time properly recognized by EuroScope. It is simply not possible, but the way I understand it, FSS would be the subsidiary station since it does not provide control service. So what I would do is, define the sector as you need it (probably no subsectors are needed here) and put it at the end of your file (after the CZWG CTRs). That way you get an active sector when you log on as FSS, but the FSS sector will never be recognized as next sector when CTR is online, because ES works the sectors from the top down and stops at the first match. You should not have FSS being recognized as next station for handoff, and it should not be recognized as a station for coordination. If you use handoffs there, you will need to select them manually. Don't know if you use handoffs/tracking for FSS. Theoretically that should work, and as far as I can think of it now, that's all you can get for now (including the upcoming ES v3.2). Maybe later more might be possible, but that won't be relevant for you now.

[Rob Killins 897126]

OK ... so my approach will be ...

 

Control zone sectors: 0-4000

Terminal sectors: 4000-23000

Enroute Lo

CZWG_Z_CTR 23000-28000

CZWG_Y_CTR 23000-28000

CZWG_X_CTR 23000-28000

CZWG_W_CTR 23000-28000

Enroute Hi

CZWG_B_CTR 0-65000

CZWG_F_CTR 0-65000

CZWG_V_CTR 0-65000

CZWG_N_CTR 0-65000

CZWG_CTR 0-65000

FSS 0-65000

 

Cheers

[Jean-Frederik Dion 819740]

OK ... so my approach will be ...

 

Control zone sectors: 0-4000

Terminal sectors: 4000-23000

Enroute Lo

CZWG_Z_CTR 23000-28000

CZWG_Y_CTR 23000-28000

CZWG_X_CTR 23000-28000

CZWG_W_CTR 23000-28000

Enroute Hi

CZWG_B_CTR 0-65000

CZWG_F_CTR 0-65000

CZWG_V_CTR 0-65000

CZWG_N_CTR 0-65000

CZWG_CTR 0-65000

FSS 0-65000

 

Cheers

I have strong doubts about the exactitude of information concerning low enroute being split 230-280. My guess is that 230 is the ceiling for your terminal sectors (TCU not TCA).

 

You want low level enroute to own airspace below 230 between terminals too. Check that with Mark.

 

Edit: Same with terminal sectors and tower radar zones. 0-4000 is fine, but terminals should also start at 0. They will exclude CZ since they are defined afterwards in your file.

 

Try this:

 

Control zone sectors: 0-4000

Terminal sectors: 0-23000

Enroute Lo

CZWG_Z_CTR 0-28500

CZWG_Y_CTR 0-28500

CZWG_X_CTR 0-28500

CZWG_W_CTR 0-28500

Enroute Hi

CZWG_B_CTR 28500-60000

CZWG_F_CTR 28500-60000

CZWG_V_CTR 28500-60000

CZWG_N_CTR 28500-60000

CZWG_CTR 28500-60000

 

As for FSS, I never used them and I'm not sure you can arrange it so that a plane is inside 2 sectors at once. Unless both controllers have a different ESE file of course. Even with GUEST function only one will win.