Understanding Handoffs and Coordination

[David Baker 1004102]

I've been noticing a lot more pilots checking in with position reports lately.

[Ross Carlson]

 

What does the person's callsign have to do with the method I posted? Nothing.

 

+ uses zero methods of callsign. So they can be connected as AIRFORCE1, AF1, A1, it doesn't matter.. at no point are you doing anything that has anything to do with their callsign and 100% with (which means moving your mouse to them and clicking).

 

Daniel, Dhruv was replying to David, not you. He's saying that if we hide the callsign from the controller when using the contactme function (via ) then you won't be able to see the callsign format for when you want to issue a command to the aircraft, such as calling up his flight plan or issuing a squawk.

[Daniel Hawton]

 

What does the person's callsign have to do with the method I posted? Nothing.

 

+ uses zero methods of callsign. So they can be connected as AIRFORCE1, AF1, A1, it doesn't matter.. at no point are you doing anything that has anything to do with their callsign and 100% with (which means moving your mouse to them and clicking).

 

Daniel, Dhruv was replying to David, not you. He's saying that if we hide the callsign from the controller when using the contactme function (via ) then you won't be able to see the callsign format for when you want to issue a command to the aircraft, such as calling up his flight plan or issuing a squawk.

 

Whops.

[Matthew Bartels]

This whole thread again points to the us vs them mentality that at times seem to tear this network apart. Anyone who knows me, knows that I fall in with the realistic group, but if people want to do the bare minimum to fling dots across their scope then let them.

 

Same with us realists, if we choose to go above and beyond for the betterment of our hobby, then why not let us? At the end of the day, a controller will be recognized by what type he or she chooses to be. The pilots take notice, thus frequenting airspace that falls in line with what they expect from the network.

 

This variety makes VATSIM what it is!

[Keith Smith]

I admire the spirit, Matt, but the reality of mixing hardcore realists with the casual side of the controlling and flying spectrum, REALISTICALLY, does not work. The network cannot serve everyone equally well....it can't be all things to all people.

 

I wish I had a solution, but after years of thinking about it, I don't. The compromise is for the realists to enjoy using r/w procedures as much as possible, but not be surprised/frustrated when they don't work (either with pilots or other controllers), and then fall back to an alternate plan when that happens. What that means, though, is that the realists cannot expect a realistic environment 100% of the time.

[Chris Virgilio 1019275]

I'm going to be brutally honest and say the following. I really do appreciate the fact that you guys think you have a strong enough understanding of these topics to try and share them with others. I've long been a believer that VATUSA's (VATSIM as well I suppose) largest value is as a teaching tool for the laymen. It doesn't work best as a second life for people who wish they worked for the FAA. So as a teaching tool, we have a tremendous opportunity to bring a wealth of complex information that is otherwise hard to find to people who basically like airplanes.

 

The problem is that most of the people who think they hold the knowledge do not hold the tact and the skill to be the ones to effectively teach it. It just never comes across as anything other than ranting and raving and the point is lost on most. There's a better way. Remember that this is a volunteer network, and that it takes a lot more people than just the "in the know" crowd (makes me laugh even thinking about it) to keep this network afloat. We need to find better ways to teach both controllers and pilots alike. Ways that are fun and keep them wanting to learn more. We also can't throw entire volumes of FAA Regulations down their throats and expect them not to make mistakes every once in a while. Someone mentioned professionalism a few posts above. You guys need to learn what professionalism means. It does not mean expecting everyone to read up and be up to date with every regulation all of the time. It means knowing how to approach situations that arise when someone makes a mistake, and come out of it with both parties having learned something and being excited for the next time they get to try it. That's the type of sensation I'd like to see this network strive to create more often. That's what will keep them coming back, and that's what will lead to more enthused traffic filled with controllers and pilots who can't wait to learn the next thing.

[Kyle Rodgers 910155]

Someone mentioned professionalism a few posts above. You guys need to learn what professionalism means. It does not mean expecting everyone to read up and be up to date with every regulation all of the time. It means knowing how to approach situations that arise when someone makes a mistake, and come out of it with both parties having learned something and being excited for the next time they get to try it.

I'm going to be that guy, and for that, I partially apologize:

 

professionalism: the standing, practice, or methods of a professional, as distinguished from an amateur.

professional: a person who is expert at his or her work; learned

 

While I understand that you're going for the professionalism-in-terms-of-tact point, the true definition of the term falls in line with the above posts. Professionalism does imply that the person will take reasonable measures to ensure that he or she is abreast of the major relevant changes to the issue at hand. I'm not saying we all need to be FAR/AIM/7110 experts here (only the av.lawyers tend to be, really, and they get paid to keep up with all of that), but I am saying that the notion that a professional should be reasonably up to date is not unreasonable.

 

 

 

Now, I'm not going to say I'm not as guilty as the rest of the people who've been drawn into the fray of this debate, but what does any of this have to do with handoffs and coordination? Someone was nice enough to point us to an article so that we could all understand this better. If you're not a realist, ignore it and get back to doing what you do. If you are, enjoy the article. As a realist, I wish life on VATSIM was more towards realism, but we have what we have. Deal. Both sides. Just like the government around here sometimes. Both blabbering back and forth and not listening to a [darned] thing on either side, which gets nothing done.

[Daniel Hawton]

My only hang up with that in VRC, is that V tags (guys squawking 1200) can't be "clicked" to get their ground speed. So in STARS mode, I end up giving all my pattern workers a discreet code so I can get a full datablock on them.

 

What does ground speed matter in a pattern?

 

"Follow C182 left downwind" now you are no longer responsible for their ground speed. VFR towers can't tell their ground speed.

[Anthony Pavlak 1058071]

It's a feature I like to use to let pilots know they're overtaking the guy they're following. If I've told them to follow, and then they don't, then yeah that's their fault. But it doesn't make the sequence any less ruined.

 

I just like seeing the ground speeds.