Aircraft add-ons with FMC/FMS/CDU

[Dominik Trybuchowicz 11337]

Hi everyone!

 

Recently I started flying bigger aircraft on VATSIM. However, the main difference between flying an airliner and general aviation aircraft on VATSIM, is that you need an FMC to operate the airliners. Radio navigation would be rather difficult at high speeds(SIDs and STARs seem to be impossible without FMC/FMS/CDU in bigger, faster aircraft).

 

Not long ago I installed PMDG MD-11 and I learnt how to fly it and how to use the FMC. However, I feel like I need a little brake from MD-11. And here is my question: What aircraft add-ons do you know, that have a good enough FMC to fly SIDs and STARs etc. on VATSIM? (AIRAC update is also important)

 

I think it'd be quite nice to have a list of all the aircraft add-ons with functional FMC, so that anybody who wants to buy such an add-on, can have a look at all the possible options.

 

Thanks

 

Dominik

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

if its listed, then you can pretty much guess which ones do then take a look at the info

 

http://www.navigraph.com/www/fmsdata.asp

[Lennart Vedin]

if its listed, then you can pretty much guess which ones do then take a look at the info

 

http://www.navigraph.com/www/fmsdata.asp

Notice that the navigraph list is not a list of all aircrafts that support navigraph data. As well navigraph list is not a list of approved or list of good quality FMC aircrafts.

 

For example the Flight1 ATR72 has a poor FMC that not support some SID/STAR functionality with is annoying.

While example MADDOG MD 80 is not in the navigraph list but support PMDG format data and has much better FMC than Flight1 ATR72.

[Randy Tyndall 1087023]

Dominik,

 

First of all, this is incorrect...

 

on VATSIM, is that you need an FMC to operate the airliners

 

You can fly the "big tin" on VATSIM using VOR to VOR or GPS navigation. You simply have to make sure you put the correct aircraft equipment code in your flightplan.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_codes

 

ATC will, or at least should, see what navigation equipment you are using and give you instructions accordingly. As for SIDs and STARs, while true you won't be able to fly the RNAV ones accurately, there are typically ones that just need two NAV radios and triangulation. A little more "intensive" to fly them that way, but certainly able to be flown.

 

My favorite, and one that can be flown with a single NAV Radio, is the PEBLE3 out of San Diego

 

 

http://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1103/00373PEBLE.PDF

 

I dial in the Oceanside (OCN) VOR frequency on my NAV1 Radio and set the CRS to the 170 radial. Take off from RWY 27, making a climbing right turn to heading 290. Once the VOR Needle tells me I am crossing the 170 Radial I turn right to 305 degrees and switch NAV1 to the Mission Bay (MZB) VOR frequency and dial in the 293 radial. Once I intersect that radial I follow it outbound until 39DME from MZB. At that point I have two gates to choose from Seal Beach VOR (SLI) or Santa Catalina VOR (SXC). Dial in the frequency of your choice and proceed direct.

 

All done without an FMC (or GPS) and only using 1 NAV radio that comes on just about every default "big tin" aircraft in FS9 or FSX.

 

You can fly in the VATSIM world with FSX or FS9 right out of the box and with no payware aircraft or airports. ATC has to know so they can make allowances in your instructions.

 

Having said that, there is something "special" about programming an FMC and seeing the aircraft do exactly what you want it to do. But, always be able to "turn it off" and hand fly if necessary. You never know what demons lurk in the air above our world.

[Dominik Trybuchowicz 11337]

if its listed, then you can pretty much guess which ones do then take a look at the info

 

http://www.navigraph.com/www/fmsdata.asp

 

as mentioned in the next reply, not all the aircraft with FMC that support navigraph are listed on this website. And also, this doesn't tell you whether the FMCs is actually good. However, I have to say that this is actually the way I was trying to find add-ons with FMCs, so I see your point

 

For example the Flight1 ATR72 has a poor FMC that not support some SID/STAR functionality with is annoying.

While example MADDOG MD 80 is not in the navigraph list but support PMDG format data and has much better FMC than Flight1 ATR72.

 

This is a very useful hint. Thanks for letting me know about the ATR72 not being very good. And also thanks for telling me that MADDOG MD80 supports the PMDG navigraph. (I thought that maybe you cannot update the AIRAC in this add-on)

 

@Randy Tyndall

As soon as I have typed '...you need an FMC to operate the airliners', I knew that this is a bit 'controversial' and that a lot of people might be saying that this is not true. It actually came out wrong, as I do know that actually you can fly the faster aircraft without an FMC (e.g. before I bought PMDG MD-11, I really enjoyed flying SIDs and STARs in a default FSX Learjet using radio navigation). This 'controversial' sentence is not really important in what I actually meant. Let's just say that I like the aircraft with FMCs and I am looking for one and I need help. I have to say a big thanks for the wikipedia link. I was often struggling to understand what some pilots put in their 'remarks' section, because I didn't know that such a thing actually existed. So, overall, I do agree that you can fly the airliners without an FMC, but currently I am looking for an FSX aircraft add-on with an FMC, because this is what I find interesting and fun for now.

 

Thank you very much for all the replies so far.

The question is still 'active'(I couldn't think of any other word than 'active' ;p): What aircraft add-ons do you know, that have a good enough FMC to fly SIDs and STARs etc. on VATSIM? (AIRAC update is also important)

P.S. I would appreciate if you could expand your opinion about MADDOG MD 80, because this one seems quite interesting

 

Kind Regards

 

Dominik

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

if its listed, then you can pretty much guess which ones do then take a look at the info

 

http://www.navigraph.com/www/fmsdata.asp

 

as mentioned in the next reply, not all the aircraft with FMC that support navigraph are listed on this website. And also, this doesn't tell you whether the FMCs is actually good. However, I have to say that this is actually the way I was trying to find add-ons with FMCs, so I see your point

 

never said that was an entire list its a place to start searching through the ones that have direct support. start from there then work your way to searching the ones that have FMC's but dont have their own nav database but support it from another addon.

 

one thing to remember, at the end of the day, theres only 1 person that knows whether youll like the addon, all we can do here is share our opinions with you.

 

dont forget about VASFMC or and Ernie Alston's ISG Gauges. you can install those on any addon

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

The Level D 767 is decent and has a fairly good FMS, but is quite buggy in FSX. The Feelthere ERJ is great, and has an FMS, however doesn't simulate failures. The Flight 1 ATR is appallingly buggy, and should not be purchased.

[Dominik Trybuchowicz 11337]

@Ernesto

Examples and opinions is what I need. I have heard about both VASFMC and ISG Gauges, but I am not interested in them.

 

@Darrol

Thank you very much. This is exactly what I need. A few examples and a few opinions. I was thinking about Level-D 767, because I have heard that it is quite frame-rate friendly. The ERJ seems interesting too. I was also thinking about the ATR, but after two negative opinions, I think I am just going to leave this add-on.

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

No problem. If you're getting the Level D, it's important to note that it has some bugs in FSX(if you set up the FMS in the wrong order, the aircraft will flip over, and the engine doesn't start properly if you have Acceleration installed), the graphics aren't as good as the MD-11, and development has been abandoned.

 

If failure simulation isn't important to you, I would go with the ERJ.

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

i wouldnt take 2 personal opinions as gospel. homework is good, especially when spending money

 

another good one ive heard about is the Flight1 Fokker. that little fokker is the maddog of fokkers

 

if you can wait, PMDG 737 or IFly 737 for FSX coming out soon.

 

im not a captainsim fan myself anymore, not because of their aircraft, mainly for the support issues.

 

if you want another jumbo, PMDG 747 you can find it in some stores for a huge saving, only $20 at some stores compared to the online price

[Dominik Trybuchowicz 11337]

I was thinking about the Level-D 767 actually, but now you are telling me about those bugs. I don't know...

The graphics in Level-D are satisfying me anyway (from what I have seen on youtube videos and my friends' flight simulators)

Actually, the failures are not important, so the ERJ looks interesting.

 

I haven't heard about the Flight1 Fokker at all. Is its FMC any good?

And, negative, I can't wait (I will probably get the PMDG 737 anyway, as soon as it comes out)

About the PMDG 747: where did you find for $20, if you don't me asking?

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

The bugs with the Level D aren't really huge problems, but Level D doesn't like to admit them so I thought I'd point it out. I would still go ahead and get it, as it is quite a bit more fun than the ERJ. On the other hand, if you don't like long hauls, then the ERJ would be better.

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

here in the US, its available at some Best Buy locations. you should be able to find it at other stores. go to the aerosoft website and see if they have anything available near you, its being marketed by them with their other boxed products

 

i wish more online retailers would do the same! i hate waiting for downloads/shipping

[Lennart Vedin]

For turbo prop, Majestic Dach-8 could be an alternative to ATR72.

 

It depend on other requirements. Majestic Dach-8 should be better then ATR72 regarding e.g. FMC, but VC cockpit is better resolution in ATR72.

[Brad Rich 1157945]

Level D is my preferred choice on VATSIM and I use Windows 7. The issues with Windows 7 are very well docomeented, easily overcome using the Level D Forum where support is very good.

 

I noticed a survey at their forum where windows 7 is used by a majority is users.

 

You cannot go wrong with Level D.

[Wycliffe Barrett]

No problem. If you're getting the Level D, it's important to note that it has some bugs in FSX(if you set up the FMS in the wrong order, the aircraft will flip over, and the engine doesn't start properly if you have Acceleration installed), the graphics aren't as good as the MD-11, and development has been abandoned.

 

If failure simulation isn't important to you, I would go with the ERJ.

 

Dominik

 

I have flown the leveld in FS2004 and FSX for some years now and I have never seen this bug that Darrol has referred to. It has never flipped over on me. To say that development has been abandoned is certainly for legal action by the developers. It has just had a major upgrade with the introduction of winglets which is not just a cosmetic upgrade but the engine performance and flight performance of the aircraft has been upgraded on all three engine types. There are numerous repaints for it and some talented indivisuals continue to create new paint schemes for it.

 

I strongly suggest you have a look at the leveld forums so that you can get the most uptodate information. Don't be fooled by a website that has not been updated in sometime. further more I think Flight1 would be somewhat surprised by the comments of this thread regarding a productthatthey sell and is probably one of their consistent top sales.

 

The leveld767 has been and continues to be the benchmark for other developers to work towards.

 

In my honest opinion you will not wrong at all if you invest your money with either PMDG or Leveld Simulations. Both have and continue to produce highend super sims that replicate both flight dynamics and systems that real world pilots are happy to endorse by their use as check rides.

 

Wycliffe Barrett

[Hunter Belanger 1129358]

As crazy as it sounds, most of the time I prefer to fly the SID's and STAR's with just the good old VOR's and DME's. No FMC, GPS or anything. It will make you a way better pilot and you will feel a whole lot more confident in your flying ability's. I hate FMC's because I think they make it so a lot of flight sim pilots forget about this very important skill and don't know how to do it. In my opinion if you can't fly it with out the help of a computer, then you shouldn't let the computer fly it for you!!! As for the RNAV way points I tend to use the default GPS and just plug them in. Do these things make life a whole lot harder? Yes they can make it a LOT harder, but does it make you a better pilot? Yes it makes you a VERY better pilot and I recommend doing it the old VOR tracking and DME way.

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

To say that development has been abandoned is certainly for legal action by the developers.

 

 

Also, if you look at the Level D boards, you will see numerous statements that is a 'completed product' and that updates to repair bugs will not occur/are extremely unlikely.

[Dominik Trybuchowicz 11337]

Thanks for all replies so far!

I am thinking about the Level-D 767 now. However, it has a competition: Captain Sim 767. To be honest, for now, I think I would go with Level-D and not Captain Sim, because, again, from what I have seen, the Captain Sim 767 is much less frame-rate friendly. What do you think?

 

The Majestic Dash 8 seems very interesting, and unlike the Level-D and PMDG, I have never heard of it before.

 

As mentioned above and in previous posts, there are some good (in other's opinions) aircraft add-ons with FMCs, that I have never heard of before e.g. Flight 1 Fokker, Majestic Software Dash 8.

So, is there anymore less popular aircraft add-ons with FMCs?

 

Thanks

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

Definitely get the Level D over the Captain Sim, the Level D has more in depth simulation, and the Captain Sim is more focused on graphics.