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Letters of Agreement, COPX problem


Eivind Fosse 818131
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Eivind Fosse 818131
Posted
Posted

Hi,

 

I have a problem programing the correct COPX lines in the ESE file. Please take a look at the attached picture:

 

EPAPI%20Problem.jpg

 

LTR01, a B737 from Sweden is inbound Gardermoen, ENGM. Sweden Control (ESOS3) is online, the same is Gardermoen APP (ENOSTE). I control Oslo control sector 2 (ENOS2).

 

LTR01 is currently in Sweden Sector 3. On his way to ENGM he will enter Area TEKVA, a small airspace Sweden control, but what can be delegated to Oslo sector 2 if needed. After Area TEKVA LTR01 will briefly enter ENOS2 before finally arriving in ENOSTE sector controlled by Oslo APP.

 

The LoA between Norway and Sweden instructs Sweden sector 3 to descend traffic inbound ENGM to FL250. The LoA between Oslo sector 2 and Oslo APP instructs Oslo sector 2 to clear flight inbound from east to FL110 and ESEBA1M arrival.

 

To make the story short I would like to enter these two LoAs in the ESE so that I, the Oslo sector 2 controller, will see LTR01 as PEL 250, COPN ESEBA, COPX EPAPI, XFL 110.

 

This is what I currently have in the ESE file:

 

COPX:*:*:EPAPI:ENGM:*:ENOS2:ENOSTE:*:11000:EPAPI

COPX:*:*:ESEBA:ENGM:*:Area TEKVA:ENOS2:*:25000:ESEBA

 

The 2nd line works fine actually. I see LTR01 as PEL 250 and COPN ESEBA, however nothing is written in COPX and XFL has the requested FL, 360.

 

As LTR descends towards EPAPI (the border between ENOS2 and ENOSTE), I can briefly see EPAPI as COPX and 110 as XFL. This will last for a few seconds before returning to COPX 360 again. Some time later it will return with correct COPX and XFL for a few seconds. For some reason the LoA information will not stay.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks

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Todor Atanasov 878664
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Posted

Shouldn't ESEBA been COPN, not COPX, as it is a entry point for you. Also does your tag have both the COPN/PEL and COPX/XFL items separately?

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Eivind Fosse 818131
Posted
Posted

Todor,

 

The tag has the Sector Entry/Exit Point Name and Sector Entry/Exit Altitude items. As you can see in the picture both on the tag and the Sector Inbound List, ESEBA is actually COPN as is correct and expected. The entry altitude FL250 is also displayed (both in the list and to the very right in the tag's 3rd line). This is also correct. However. As you can see in the Sector Inbound List, the COPX nor XFL is displayed correctly...

 

Eivind

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Todor Atanasov 878664
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Posted

Is the COPX shown when the track is inside of ENOS ?

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Eivind Fosse 818131
Posted
Posted
Is the COPX shown when the track is inside of ENOS ?

 

Both yes and no. It may appear for a few seconds, but then disappears again Just like it happens in both ESOS3 and Area TEKVA sectors...

 

Please take a look at the pictures below (taken from a sim session I've made to illustrate the problem).

 

Still inside ESOS3 sector, handed over to me ENOS2. Displays correct COPX EPAPI and XFL 110

EPAPI%20Problem%202.jpg

 

 

Seconds later the COPX and XFL disappears as shown in this picture when the aircraft is inside Area TEKVA.

EPAPI%20Problem%203.jpg

 

A few moments later, still inside Area TEKVA, the correct COPX and XFL appears again:

EPAPI%20Problem%204.jpg

 

And disappears again...

EPAPI%20Problem%206.jpg

 

After entering ENOS2 sector, the correct COPX and XFL is displayed the last time for a few seconds again

EPAPI%20Problem%207.jpg

 

Before disappearing for good moments later:

EPAPI%20Problem%208.jpg

 

When inside ENOSTE sector the correct COPX and XFL is never displayed again:

EPAPI%20Problem%209.jpg

 

 

Thanks for watching.

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Eivind Fosse 818131
Posted
Posted

Any ideas please..?

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Todor Atanasov 878664
Posted
Posted

Sorry Eivind I was away for one month, send me the sector file, asr and if you have a a scenario file to test it.

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Eivind Fosse 818131
Posted
Posted

Thanks,

 

Mail sent

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  • 7 months later...
Ervins Reinverts
Posted
Posted

Hi all,

 

I am wondering if this got sorted out, as I recently saw something that I feel *MIGHT* be related.

I was controlling Baltic sector (BALT_CTR) during Fly and see Santa 2011 and next sector was Tampere Radar (EFES_2_CTR). Most of the traffic went to Finland through the INTOR intersection and in our case, it is not defined in our sector file as COPX point, as there are no specific rules to apply. Still, the tag alternatively show me that the next controller would be EFES_2 (or relevant frequency if close enough) and after some time switches to -- and unicom frequency respectively, then it switches back to EFES_2 and then again to unicom. Looks like a pretty similar behaviour, so it might be something not related to COPX definitions in particular, but something a bit more general.

Ervins

963676.jpg

balt.png

C1 controller EVRR & EETT FIR; BALT, EURN & EURE UIRs

Follow EVRR_FIR on Twitter at http://twitter.com/evrr_fir

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Eivind Fosse 818131
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Posted

No... Unfortunately the issue has not been resolved. At least I'm not aware of any solution to the problem...

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Gergely Csernak
Posted
Posted

Next time you see something similar, please use the position prediction tool to understand what is going on. Press the current altitude TAG item with left button twice (not doubleclick!). Then all predicted points with calculated controller and profile altitude is displayed along the route. I guess you will see why and how ES decides the next controller. The flickering behavior is common when there is a small niche between sectors and accidentally ES uses a prediction point that is not inside any sector.

Gergely.

EuroScope developer

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