Sandy Bridge Cores and Cooling

[Brendan Chen 943434]

Hi all,

 

I've been searching for some time for hardwares to run the NGX. The aim for me currently is to run FSX with NGX at full or near full graphics, on the ground with high detail clouds and REX (cloudy sky), using ORBX city sceneries (Melbourne, Cairns, Canberra etc.), and UK2000 Heathrow and Gatwick; at a stable 40 FPS. I wouldn't think this is an impossible goal, though I realise sometime I must make some give or take.

 

I've gotten to the point where I think it will be more beneficial for me to upgrade my CPU and cooling system if must. So I'm putting the question out there:

 

If I choose to get an i7 2600 (or equivalent) with Sandy Bridge cores, and in order to achieve the aim, do I need to OC it so much so that it needs liquid cooling?

 

And secondly, as Sandy Bridge cores can handle its own OCing, do I still need to do manual OCing to achieve that?

 

I'm following NickN's guide (from AOA), and I believe he is getting a whole lot of computers for the NGX LineWork package, does anyone know what specs is he getting and what kind of cooling and overclocking will he (and team) need to do?

 

Cheers.

[William Sequeira 1192651]

I would say no, no OCing is needed. They are the best out there now. I just recently upgraded from an I3 530 OCed to 3.6 to the I7 870 and I can almost max out everything ...I still keep shadows under control though.

Also, AI traffic will kill your computer no matter what the system is I think.

 

They only time I run into a little bit of lag, is when flying into KBOS, as I bought FlyTampa scenery for that airport, and it is pretty nice, but a CPU hog.

 

If you are going to upgrade, make sure you MoBo can handle it, as the socket type is the LGA 1155. Also, I never trust stock cooling, as I find that I spend too much money on plastic to trust substandard cooling to keep it running within limits.

 

I would recommend the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Plus for your cooling needs. I have a liquid cooled system, but it is only because I didn't read the warnings on how insane these things are to install.

[Brendan Chen 943434]

FlyTampa never use to hog too much CPU when I was running FS9 with it. Then I've kind of dropped out using Fly Tampa as they didn't produce any airports that I was interested in.

 

Anyway, that's great news if Sandy Bridge can be OC automatically. I've been trying to OC my i7 950, to 4.0GHz was not pretty. I bought a cooler as well before, top range air cooler (similar to your's but double the size), I don't remember the name though. It was still maxed out at 98C!!

 

Now that I'm away from home, my partner is using my computer, and she said there was issues about OC that she had to reset the bios to have the computer running again.

 

So I really don't want to do manual OC unless I have to. But I see people with their system running 4.0GHz, 4.2, some even went as crazy as 4.7~5.0GHz. I know with air cooling under normal climate (18C ~ 28C) won't be able to achieve that, but I hope to achieve a stable 4.0GHz ~ 4.2GHz with a 2600 or better (when I finally get enough money for an upgrade).

 

I'm keeping my current hardware mostly so I can concentrate on the CPU and MB (maybe an SSD as well).

[Erhan Atesoglu 1050499]

Liquid cooling is definitely worth it and yes it makes a huge difference. I'm about 48C that's about 10 degrees lower than I was with the stock speed and stock fan. So it's a smart move inorder to compensate for the OC and higher voltages. Check out the Corsair kit, takes some effort to install, but if it's a new system it's actually easier than the stock fan.

[Brendan Chen 943434]

I heard a mix of opinions. Some say a kit is worth going for, some say kits are no good, a waste of money, go for separate pieces.

 

But the question is, I don't need to push it so much to the limit point, I just want it to go up to 4.0 or 4.2 if possible. Does that mean I will still need liquid cooler?

 

Does the newer icores run at a lower temperature? Or are they still the same as the first generations?

[Wycliffe Barrett]

Check the i5 2500k sandybridge chips. they can produce just as much bang for your buck as the i7's. They have been met with favorable reviews I have an i5 sandybridge and run at 30fps with REX aSevo and whole bunch more stuff inclusing bothe the PMDG 737 NGX and the iFly 737 NGX.

 

Wycliffe

[Brendan Chen 943434]

Check the i5 2500k sandybridge chips. they can produce just as much bang for your buck as the i7's. They have been met with favorable reviews I have an i5 sandybridge and run at 30fps with REX aSevo and whole bunch more stuff inclusing bothe the PMDG 737 NGX and the iFly 737 NGX.

 

Wycliffe

 

Yea, so I heard too. What about the heat component? Do they produce a lot less heat? Will I require liquid cooling?

[Luke Kolin]

From what I've heard, 4Ghz on an i5-2500K is doable with stock cooling, and definitely with aftermarket air cooling. Liquid cooling is complexity and expense you don't need for such a speed.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

[Brendan Chen 943434]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

I just found the name of my cooler I bought: It's the Noctua NH-D14 dual fan CPU cooler, supposedly a top range air cooler.

 

So I should be good with that hopefully.

 

The 2500k, is that the one with a fancy looking fan? Or do only i7 2600Ks have it?

[Brad Littlejohn]

Are you looking at going with a SB processor soon? I ask this because Ivy Bridge is going to be coming out Real Soon Now[[tm]. It is supposed to be handling the cooling with overclocking a lot better than the SB processors. Apple avoided SB processors (especially the mobile versions) because of cooling. Now that Intel has the cooling down and more manageable, Apple went with them, and Intel are now looking to add that functionality (and more) into IB.

 

BL.

[Luke Kolin]

Isn't Ivy Bridge planned for Q1 or Q2 of 2012?

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

[Brendan Chen 943434]

This is probably a stupid question, but with the new IB, although temp management might have improved, but what about its performance when it benchmarks with SB?

[Erhan Atesoglu 1050499]

Ivy is a long ways off.. next up SB-EN/EX

[Brendan Chen 943434]

Ivy is a long ways off.. next up SB-EN/EX

 

OK say if I aim to get a new CPU at the beginning of next year, SB-EN/EX will probably be my aim? Or do people usually wait for a while for some other users to report back the performance?

[Erhan Atesoglu 1050499]

It's wait and see but it shouldn't be any worse. Note that the SB-EN will be quite an upgrade. The system will definitely cost more than the current SB's.

[Brendan Chen 943434]

So I've never really "chose" a motherboard for my machines before, I've always been recommended one. So if I was to choose a motherboard, what aspect of it is important for FSX? ie How do I choose one?

[Erhan Atesoglu 1050499]

Brendan: Basically your motherboard choice is dependant on the CPU you want to use. Then you have to choose between chipsets, depending on the features you want your motherboard to have. I believe for sandybridge it's between the older P67 and newer Z68 boards if you want to overclock. The Nehelam's require you to increase the voltages otherwise you won't get far with an OC regardless of the temps.

[Brendan Chen 943434]

Brendan: Basically your motherboard choice is dependant on the CPU you want to use. Then you have to choose between chipsets, depending on the features you want your motherboard to have. I believe for sandybridge it's between the older P67 and newer Z68 boards if you want to overclock. The Nehelam's require you to increase the voltages otherwise you won't get far with an OC regardless of the temps.

 

Thanks for the info. In terms of choosing a motherboard, what do we usually look for? The features of the MB? Or specific specs like CPU and GPU?

 

MB is one thing I never really understand how to choose. In a nutshell, CPU I know by choosing the default clockspeed, cooling and the gaps in the silicons (45nm, 32nm etc.). But how this equate to MB is unknown to me.

 

I have a set of decent hardware in my computer now except for HDD and CPU (motherboard comes along for the ride), so with my next upgrade (possibly around March/April 2012) I want to invest in a good CPU to run highend addon products like FSX, Orbx and NGX smoothly. This is why I'm starting to do some research now; asking around, reading reviews etc.

[Erhan Atesoglu 1050499]

IvyBridge is a good place to start. Worrying about what's currently available is pointless because the motherboard market is quite oversaturated. Before the Ivy Bridge processors come out there will be a handful of motherboards to choose from and you'll be able to judge based on price alone.

 

The first set of boards are always intended for gamers and overclockers. The second set is for people who don't plan to overclock and are much cheaper, and contain far less copper.

 

So it's really not a choice on which will run FSX better they are all the same, but obviously you'll get a much better OC if your motherboard is up to the task as well.

[Brendan Chen 943434]

IvyBridge is a good place to start. Worrying about what's currently available is pointless because the motherboard market is quite oversaturated. Before the Ivy Bridge processors come out there will be a handful of motherboards to choose from and you'll be able to judge based on price alone.

 

The first set of boards are always intended for gamers and overclockers. The second set is for people who don't plan to overclock and are much cheaper, and contain far less copper.

 

So it's really not a choice on which will run FSX better they are all the same, but obviously you'll get a much better OC if your motherboard is up to the task as well.

 

Thanks for the reply. The way I understand it is, for the purpose of FS, we are interested to look for a motherboard with an outstanding or at least sound performance.

 

Having said that, my concerns are that with the first batch of IBs, it would have stability issues? When I got my i7 (first gen), although it wasn't all that troublesome, I found that the second gen iCores (SBs if I have not mistaken) have far better performance. Same worry goes to MBs.

 

I haven't been following the history of intel processors as such, only do research when I need to buy one, so I may sound like I don't know what I'm talking about, please bear with me.

[Luke Kolin]

Some of us may be getting nice Christmas presents....

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ivy-bridge-processor-release-22nm-3d-transistor,13753.html

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

[Erhan Atesoglu 1050499]

Does anyone actually celebrate christmas in march? I'm getting less impressed with Ivy now that I realize it's got no quad channel support and it doesn't have PCI 3.0 either. Looks like if you want a machine to crunch through FSX, Sandy Bridge enthusiast version is the way to go.

[Rahul Parkar]

 

Having said that, my concerns are that with the first batch of IBs, it would have stability issues? When I got my i7 (first gen), although it wasn't all that troublesome, I found that the second gen iCores (SBs if I have not mistaken) have far better performance. Same worry goes to MBs.

 

The reason the second generation (Sandy bridge) Intel i7 and affiliate processors had better performance is because of Intel's Tick-Tock strategy.

 

Of course it's based on Moore's law.

 

The first generation of a processor is when they decrease the size of transistors in the chip, no "major" performance optimization is performed.

 

The second generation is when they optimize the current setup the first generation brought along, increasing performance quite drastically.

 

Hope this helps you make your decision. Ivy Bridge will just be the point at which Intel switch from 32nm transistors to 22nm transistors.

 

Cheers!

Rahul

[Brendan Chen 943434]

Does anyone actually celebrate christmas in march? I'm getting less impressed with Ivy now that I realize it's got no quad channel support and it doesn't have PCI 3.0 either. Looks like if you want a machine to crunch through FSX, Sandy Bridge enthusiast version is the way to go.

 

Interesting, what is quad channel support? (sorry for my ignorance). And how does it make the CPU worse?

[Erhan Atesoglu 1050499]

There are three important numbers when it comes to memory these days. The speed of ram your motherboard handles, the speed of the ram itself, and the speed at which the processor talks to the other two. Standard Core Duo is single channel speed at 400mhz, 800mhz is featured on the original i7/Sandybridges and 1600hz on the latest SanyBrdige-EN/EX. It's tiny area of the processor, but it's one area that is in constant use and overheats quickly, so it's very expensive feature. But still a good feature to have in Extreme chips that cost 3x as much.

 

Now unfortunately it seems by the benchmarks that 1600mhz is really not helping all that much in typical gaming scenarios, so the best bet seems to go with the higher CPU clock rates offered by Ivy Bridge. Ultimately we should get to a situation where the 1600mhz is needed but for now it's simply overkill.