Not Having Any Fun Here!

[Scot Mason 1078900]

I'm a newbie to vat sim but not to flying i have around 3170 hrs in FS and 160's in real.. The issue is tonight I tried to do this again help me out! They are not very nice in ATC!

 

1. I went to sim routes picked a FP KMEM-KMSP MEM7 FAM MCW KASPR4 then selected the file button, I was directed to VATSIM FP services and I filled in the blanks put in call sign NWA3005, B739/F and time fuel every blank filled in.

 

2.Open FS selected Squak Box I was in NWA 739 (iFly) no one was on line at the time so I did all my pre flight and 122.8 and departed via MEM7 DP. I did not ust the SQB to file a plan or pick a call sign.

 

3.Enroute I get a message to sign on with KC cent on his FREQ as I did I called him NWA3005 with you FL340, he comes back and said I do not have a FP for you and all I get is NWA I need you to resend.........How do you do that? So I opend the SQB menu and had to create a FP the last plan I used was in there, So I did the best I could and resent it it would not let me change the call sign was not clickable window it just said NWA. I didn't know what else to do I know for sure I did it in the VATSIM FP. SO he told me to sign off and reset so I did. But befor I did I was [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned a SQC of 2146 and ID which I did and he could see me.

 

4. I finally found where to change the info in flight in SQB got it all right and signed on again He said he got the FP and NWA3005 but I need to Ident which I did and he could not see me the SQUAWK code was still 2146 and set on MODE C in the RA/??? for tacas so I cycled as I would in real life still could not see me at all he said I can't see you and must sign off and learn your equipment. I'm sure you know if you start opening windows and messing around with a high tech AC like the Ifly things aren't going to go right, I was running FSCrew too and just setting my self up for a boot which is not good due to flying for NWA Virt. The more complex the AC the more tempermentel it can be.

 

5. So I signed off and continued my flight and got the WX via default wx engine and during the star about 20 NM out I got the fantastic boot. Sounds like fun hmmm maybe stick to off line. I dealt with real world never had an issue.

 

1. So what FP service do I use I know Sim Routes but where do I file it at AVSIM or SQB?

2. Why couldn't he help me file a new one? By that time it was D> MCW KASPR4 star to KMSP

3. Why was my call sign NWA3005 not recognized? I put it on VATSIM FP sevices

4. Why did my sqwk code not work I never changed it and did not turn off the Mode C which ident do you use the little window or console I did both.

 

Sorry Very Frustrated, I heard so much about and thought it would be fun, this is my second flight with ATC the first my MIC did not work but it was a key [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment the others have been under 122.8 Thanks Scooter

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

firstly, the controller shouldnt be telling anyone to log off, not their job, thats for supervisors to do. if they have an issue, they need to call a supervisor to come help. controllers should not be telling anyone to log off, not sure how many RD's it takes to get that message across to the controllers. i know it was mentioned atleast a dozen times when i was with ZMA. least a dozen more since

 

that aside. your first error sounds like you may have signed on as "NWA". no biggy, happens. you logged back in correctly

 

second thing, sometimes the transponder mode doesnt work from the transponder panel, you have to do it from squawkbox. look under transponder on squawkbox then select mode c

 

1. recommend filing through the client, but you can also prefile through the vatsim site. when you prefile its very important you log in with the same callsign you filed it under, otherwise its not going to work, if you logged in as NWA by mistake, thatd be why that happened.

 

2. probably already was annoyed to go out of his way, literally takes less then a minute to create a new strip manually. some folks arent "people persons" i guess. i wasnt there, so cant tell ya why, just what sounds like happened.

 

3. when you log in, make sure its correct, you mentioned it only showed NWA the first time. you may have forgot to add the flight number.

 

4. see above, to ident you must use the squawkbox transponder. the transponder mode sometimes works with the panel, sometimes it has to be done via the squawkbox window. depends on the addon

Edited December 22, 2011 at 06:13 AM by Guest

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

yea your stats tell the story, you logged in as NWA thats why it didnt match up initially

 

NWA Pilot Pilot 12/22/11 02:16 12/22/11 03:19

 

MEM-MSP (3)

KMEM-KMSP (2)

 

1:03

NWA3005 Pilot Pilot 12/22/11 03:30 12/22/11 03:35

 

KMEM-KMSP (6)

 

0:04

NWA3005 Pilot Pilot 12/22/11 04:45 12/22/11 04:46 No plans filed 0:01

NWA3005 Pilot Pilot 12/22/11 04:47 12/22/11 04:47 No plans filed 0:00

[Scot Mason 1078900]

I got the squawk code figured out......Re logged in and went to standby mode, just frustrated so missed it, went through and reviewed all steps and caught lots of errors on my part. In the simroutes I should had more intersections (VOR's) planed than I did, got that down now. Have my Call sign set now.

 

How to fix it I allways get the wx first then simroutes with a complete flight plan, then to VATSIM to pre-file of to FS then SQB open add the flight plan there the same as VATSIM then log on as NWA3005 and off I go I hope! Don't forget VAFINs, I didn't mention that I got booted off the server too! The other night the guy in MEM center helped me with a FP and simplified it and had no issues other than had to reset my MIC button.

 

One last question where can I find info on center boundries?

[Charan Kumar]

Hi Scott, any time a controller tells you to log off and you are sure you haven't done anything wrong, call a supervisor yourself, I am sure they can help you and the situation.

 

I think I might have misread it, but if you recycled or reset your transponder from the acft's pedestal settings, that won't affect your sqk mode and ident on VATSIM. The ident and sqk mode settings or on the sqkbox panel themselves. However, your sqk code from the pedestal will be the same as the one VATSIM controllers see.

 

When you get a flight plan on simroutes, before you download or prefile, check the route in the table and make sure that all the lengths are available. If any one has a "-" in the length column, then simroutes doesn't recognize that fix, route or something else is wrong with the route. You don't have to prefile, you can send it from your sqkbox after you logon, just remember to file it before you call the controller for clearance or, if on UNICOM, just before you take off.

 

The call sign should be set before you log on. So, decide on what call sign you want, change it in SQKBOX and only then connect. You can't change it once you are connected, which I think you realized, but in case you didnt.

 

My sequence has been, start fsx, start my weather program, load up at the airport, open VAFins and connect to fsx, Connect to VATSIM, then file a flight plan (I do it from FSInn, u do it from sqkbox), then I will contact ATC or go about my work if on UNICOM.

 

Center boundaries can be found on tools like VATSPY, or websites like VATVIEW.com or VATTASTIC.com, which will display your flight aswell when you are connected to VATSIM. Remember, they are usually 2-5 mts behind in updating, so if you see yourself approaching a CTR who is online, try calling them when you think you are close enough, let them make the call on if they want you on their frequency immediately or later.

[Ryan Geckler]

I think the controller meant disconnect then reconnect, not just disconnect.

[Kyle Rodgers 910155]

Don't let one controller put you off to the whole idea of ATC. If you've actually flown real world, I'm sure you've experienced the same. On my long XC solo for my PPL I get yelled at by the departure controller because I didn't provide my altitude on initial contact. Stuff happens, and even though I knew to do it and simply forgot, you can be sure I always give my altitude now.

 

First, as I always say in my computer cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]es:

Computers are powerful, but they're very stupid. You put your callsign of NWA3005 in VATSIM's flight plan pre-file, but you did not log on with that callsign. We're dealing with computers here. They're not going to just pick up on "Oh hey, someone logged in as NWA. Clearly that means they match the plan filed as NWA3005!"

 

Second, in FSX, Squawkbox's transponder doesn't always tie in to the aircraft's transponder. I've seen it work sometimes, but not all the time. Always double check your equipment and troubleshoot if necessary. If you really are a real world pilot, you should know that well: your engine's out, what do you do? Mixture in, end of story, right? Wrong. Check the shutoff valve, tank selector, mixture and mags. Oh hey, it was the fuel selector! Same thing with your transponder. Controller says it's not showing up, try the transponder in the plane. If it's still not showing up, what's the next logical step? The program connecting you to the network also has a pop-up transponder with a big orange light telling you Mode-C (NORM) versus standby. Glance at that, to see what that's telling you. If you're using Win 7 or Vista, make sure you give Squawkbox admin priviledges (google "windows 7 run as admin"), otherwise your commands in a program might not actually go through.

 

 

 

I understand all of this is frustrating, but in making sure everything goes smoothly, it's best to look internally, rather than externally. First, what might I have done incorrectly? The reason for this, is [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning blame to others (the computer, the controller, or otherwise) at the outset generally gets nothing done to fix the issue, even if it isn't your fault. The other day, I was flying up in Seattle and the controller gave me the altimeter setting, so I dialed it in (I deleted the 'B' key [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment for realism). A few minutes later he came back saying I was off my altitude and to check my altimeter, and gave me the pressure. I double checked the setting and I was right on, but my altitude was off. Instead of writing it off on the plane being tempermental, the controller being wrong, or anything else, I started troubleshooting. Turns out, my weather program was being overridden somehow, and the pressure had reverted to 29.92.

 

While I don't want to defend the controller's actions, at the same time, you have to understand that things like this are frustrating. As controllers, we are here to provide air traffic control, yet we always get pilots who don't understand their aircraft, don't file plans (either forgot, or don't know how), choose nonstandard callsigns (nothing technically wrong with this by the rule book, but it doesn't help us out), among other things. When we're forced to exert extra effort due to the (perceived) lack of preparation on the pilot's part, we can get a little irritated. Similarly, if I'm not prepared as a controller and don't give you the approach to expect because I never checked the winds, it makes your job a little more difficult, and that could get upsetting as well.

 

 

 

You should also give this a read:

http://www.vatsim.net/prc/

[Paul Byrne]

SO he told me to sign off and reset so I did.

Yeah,

 

Before we go down down the "lets crucify the controller" road again, why don't we actually pay attention to what Scot said and did (as Ryan has also pointed out).

 

He prefiled a plan as NWA3005 and connected as "NWA". Therefore his plan did not [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociate with his connection. All the controller asked him to do was to disconnect, change his callsign (so the plan would [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociate with him) and then reconnect so full service could be provided. It's a much easier method than explaining how to file a plan through SB/FSInn itself or by creating a whole new strip for the pilot. This was not a controller telling a new pilot to sign off and not come back (at least it doesn't look that way).

 

Scot, VATSIM can be quite overwhelming at first, even for people with real experience. The biggest hurdles you'll face are the software, the top down system and what we call "VATSIMisms": Those little differences to the real world that have to happen to make VATSIM work efficiently. Don't worry, it takes a little time, but once you get used to the system, it becomes a walk in the park.

 

You'll also find plenty of people here who can help you out with anything you don't understand, so ask away.

 

Cheers!

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

paul, i think the part that was probably missed was this part

 

4. I finally found where to change the info in flight in SQB got it all right and signed on again He said he got the FP and NWA3005 but I need to Ident which I did and he could not see me the SQUAWK code was still 2146 and set on MODE C in the RA/??? for tacas so I cycled as I would in real life still could not see me at all he said I can't see you and must sign off and learn your equipment.

 

that part is a "no no" for any controller. the part you were quoting is just fine. but it seems to have went a bit further then that after that according to what was written. again, wasnt there, dont know how it was actually worded that way, maybe something else was said and he just took it that way, but if it went like that, a bit of a no no to do

[Paul Byrne]

Heh,

 

I should really take some of my own advice . Thanks Ernesto.

 

I don't know, we try to hammer it into everyone to call a SUP and we can help to sort these types of problems. I've had the same problem though (pilots unable to sq normal) when working as a controller. Most times it can be resolved by pointing them in the direction of the client. But the odd time that hasn't worked, I have told the pilot that they would need to sort that problem out as it becomes difficult to control a pilot that is squawking standby (and it's also a violation of the CoC). I haven't told them to disconnect, I just emphasise the fact that they need to have their equipment working to participate fully on VATSIM.

 

As a SUP though, if I couldn't get the pilot to squawk normal, then as a last resort they would be asked to disconnect, for the same reasons as above.

 

Cheers!

[Mark Buff 1213787]

1. So what FP service do I use I know Sim Routes but where do I file it at AVSIM or SQB?

2. Why couldn't he help me file a new one? By that time it was D> MCW KASPR4 star to KMSP

3. Why was my call sign NWA3005 not recognized? I put it on VATSIM FP sevices

4. Why did my sqwk code not work I never changed it and did not turn off the Mode C which ident do you use the little window or console I did both.

 

You forgot one:

 

5. What's the PRC and why am I too lazy to read it?

 

Perhaps if you find flying Zone-esq on VAT SIM not to your liking, and your not having any fun, don't connect and go somewhere else. VAT SIM can't be all things to all people. 10 minutes of reading the PRC would have likely eliminated your negative experience online, and the page o'whines you posted here.

[Luke Kolin]

What a warm welcome to VATSIM!

 

Luke

[Paul Byrne]

Mark,

 

You could also add (just for the likes of yourself):

 

6. What's the Code of Conduct and why don't I bother reading it?

 

VATSIM Code of Conduct, section A10.

 

Since this is a learning environment, there are times when a pilot may encounter a new air traffic controller who is in the process of learning his airspace and/or general air traffic control procedures. The same may be true of the controller who may find himself issuing ATC to a pilot flying online for the first time. Everyone should remember to exercise patience and courtesy to these new pilots and controllers.

 

It's HERE by the way. Read it sometime and remember it next time you post.

 

Cheers!

[Mark Buff 1213787]

'ppreciate the link. But why should I waste my time reading it? I'd rather just come here as a newbie and whine about stuff that's already written. Why can't I just connect and go fly, doing what I want? Why spend time doing anything on my own? I can just come here, and people will spoon feed me everything I need.. this is an educational environment afterall, right?

 

Besides, not talking about the event itself, rather the coming here and compaining about it.

[Paul Byrne]

I'd rather just come here as a newbie and whine about stuff that's already written.

Instead, you come here as a newbie and whine about people asking questions.

 

this is an educational environment afterall, right?

Absolutely. But you do realise what one method of educating yourself is? Asking questions, which the poster did and he is getting them answered to hopefully educate him further on how you operate on VATSIM.

 

Mark, you do actually have some valid points, if you dig past the hyperbole. However, the style you put them across with is aggressive, condescending and pretty rude. You could have made all the points you wanted to make without resorting to calling people names. That's why I posted that section of the CoC; because you need to show some basic respect when you address other people on VATSIM.

 

Anyway, apologies for thread drift.

 

Cheers!

[Daniel Hawton]

I've had the same problem though (pilots unable to sq normal) when working as a controller.

 

...

 

As a SUP though, if I couldn't get the pilot to squawk normal, then as a last resort they would be asked to disconnect, for the same reasons as above.

 

As a controller, if I can't get a pilot to squawk normal then I work with their primary target. In the US, we have 3 ways to identify primary targets. In addition, we have things like "Report p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing" "Report reaching" "Say altitude" etc. that allow us to control without the use of Mode C transponders.

 

So if I can't help the pilot get the transponder working either because it's too busy or they can't figure it out, then I use one of the 3 primary methods of radar identification and manually hand them off to the next controller. It's extra fun too. Never had a controller give me any problems for handing off a primary only target.

 

Personally, I see zero reason to A) Call a supervisor [unless it's solely to help the pilot learn their client because I am too busy with traffic] or B) ask the pilot to disconnect solely because they can't get the transponder working.

[Paul Byrne]

Personally, I see zero reason to A) Call a supervisor [unless it's solely to help the pilot learn their client because I am too busy with traffic] or B) ask the pilot to disconnect solely because they can't get the transponder working.

 

Well, as I said, they would be asked as a last resort. Part of getting to the last resort would be asking the controller if he would handle the target squawking standby. If they're willing, then no need to ask for a disconnect. But, if they are unwilling, then as a last resort, I'd ask the pilot to disconnect.

 

I'm not here to argue about whether it is right or wrong for a controller to deny this. But they have the right under the CoC not to have a pilot squawking standby in their airspace (B4).

 

Cheers!

[Scot Mason 1078900]

Thanks everyone for the help thats why I posted the steps I took the best I could so everyone could HELP ME to see where I made mistakes, I'm not mad at anyone even MARK but your supposed to help not critize like I do in real world when I go into burning houses I don't tell the rookie to read the book AGAIN I help him in his errors with practice and help him get through so we all can go home the next day.

 

I caught my transponder error it was my fault I did not reset from standby to normal when I relogged on. The controler did boot me from the server when I tried to resend a new flight plan and found the error with my call sign and I signed back on and he could not see me and ask me to log off and continue off line for practice. The issue was never about flying skills just new equipment. Well anyhow I think I got it with the guys who posted advice and me messing with for a few hours. I do indeed have my call sign set up no more issues with that one. I'm not whineing just need someone to look at the way I ran the the play to call a timeout and bring me to sideline and adjust the play to score thats all. I know every issue was my mistake and I take the responsiblity for it no blame here to anyone just help me thats all.

[Scot Mason 1078900]

Thanks for all your help just completed my first succesfull flight KMEM-KMSP all went great. I just had some things out of wack and that is taken care of! Have a great weekend! Again thanks for the help!

[Tim Barber]

The controler did boot me from the server when I tried to resend a new flight plan and found the error with my call sign and I signed back on and he could not see me and ask me to log off and continue off line for practice.

 

The controller would not have the permissions to remove you from the network, unless he himself was a Supervisor...

 

I would suspect that your connection to the server being dropped was just one of those things that happens to all of us every now and then, and was just a coincidence.

[Scot Mason 1078900]

All good here now consider my issue closed and I'm thankful for your help!