Aaron Williamson 1020371 Posted February 5, 2012 at 07:05 PM Posted February 5, 2012 at 07:05 PM Is it just because today happens to be Superbowl Sunday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Rutila 974112 Posted February 5, 2012 at 07:11 PM Posted February 5, 2012 at 07:11 PM Probably. It's just like any other hobby. If there's a major holiday or national event going on, you're probably not going to see many people online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Beaton Posted February 6, 2012 at 05:11 AM Posted February 6, 2012 at 05:11 AM Noticed this tonight too, haha. Surprisingly there was tons of people flying in North America, but a large shortage of ATC... and when I was departing out of KLAS, center happened to be on and it seemed most people he was calling were having trouble listening/responding... so I think the people flying were mostly glued to their TVs anyways haha. Easier to fly without paying any attention than controlling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Rutila 974112 Posted February 6, 2012 at 06:53 AM Posted February 6, 2012 at 06:53 AM ...it seemed most people he was calling were having trouble listening/responding... so I think the people flying were mostly glued to their TVs anyways haha. Easier to fly without paying any attention than controlling This is actually becoming an increasingly annoying, daily occurrence throughout VATUSA, and not just on Superbowl night. It's not only rude, but it completely waters down the experience for everyone and greatly increases stress on the controllers. I don't like sounding cynical, but it gets way out of hand with some individuals and some particular VAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Wollenberg 810243 Posted February 6, 2012 at 09:09 AM Posted February 6, 2012 at 09:09 AM Unfortunately, that's nothing new Harold. Has been happening as long as I can remember, and is frustrating indeed. You have to call people 10 times to get them to respond, then try via text, and they finally show up, from watching TV or doing computer work, or whatever else they were working on. Bryan Wollenberg ZLA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Bucholski 1023183 Posted February 6, 2012 at 04:00 PM Posted February 6, 2012 at 04:00 PM I guess .wallop would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Ramsey 810181 Posted February 6, 2012 at 04:30 PM Posted February 6, 2012 at 04:30 PM I was on during the first half and didn't get very many wallops. Kyle Ramsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Becker 1142460 Posted February 6, 2012 at 04:37 PM Posted February 6, 2012 at 04:37 PM I guess .wallop would help. I don't .wallop non-responsive pilots anymore because the supervisors that have always responded to calls for such incidents have asked for a screen capture indicating the times of my attempts to contact. I have no disrespect for the SUPs that asked for them but the process is flawed for controllers in these situations. If I have a conflict now with a non-responsive pilot, action needs to be taken now, not 30 minutes from now. If you aren't going to be at your screen for a long haul, either log off or don't start it. That is my $.02. Let the flaming commence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Alvarez 818262 Posted February 6, 2012 at 04:50 PM Posted February 6, 2012 at 04:50 PM Marcus, that sounds a little weird. i would take that to the VP-Sup's so he can check out what happened. ive never had a sup ask for time stamps. granted, they arent going to terminate the connection right away, they will try and make contact with the pilot first. unless the aircraft is in direct conflict right away with others, they wont terminate the connection without verifying it themselves. if its not a direct conflict, vector others away from the target until they disconnect it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Ramsey 810181 Posted February 6, 2012 at 05:16 PM Posted February 6, 2012 at 05:16 PM I guess .wallop would help. I don't .wallop non-responsive pilots anymore because the supervisors that have always responded to calls for such incidents have asked for a screen capture indicating the times of my attempts to contact. I have no disrespect for the SUPs that asked for them but the process is flawed for controllers in these situations. If I have a conflict now with a non-responsive pilot, action needs to be taken now, not 30 minutes from now. If you aren't going to be at your screen for a long haul, either log off or don't start it. That is my $.02. Let the flaming commence... If you have a conflict they will disconnect in very short order. If there is no conflict they may wait a while before acting. They are just collecting data, if you have none to offer just say that. Kyle Ramsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Byrne Posted February 6, 2012 at 05:29 PM Posted February 6, 2012 at 05:29 PM Hi Marcus, That sounds strange. I know when I respond to a non-responsive pilot, I do ask when the 1st contactme was sent, for my reference and then for entry on the cert record (it will have no bearing on when I remove the member). But to ask for a screen capture from you, seems a little bit extreme. The only thing I can think of is if the pilot in question was actually going to DCRM for further action because of recurrent behaviour. Then we are obliged to provide evidence to DCRM in relation to the case. But any DCRM I've dealt with in relation to an unresponsive member was happy with a screen grab from me and also the log of the chat box I had open with the member. Also (as Ernesto said) if we are responding to a non-responsive pilot in controlled airspace, we don't have to wait 30 minutes. Granted, I will give 5-10mins to make an attempt to contact them myself and to give a certain amount of due process. Also if they are going to cause a conflict with other traffic, I'll remove them far quicker than that. But 30 minutes is only for uncontrolled airspace. Keep walloping for these. Otherwise you're just helping to perpetuate the behaviour. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Robinson Posted February 6, 2012 at 08:27 PM Posted February 6, 2012 at 08:27 PM What was left unsaid are those times when a CTR controller calls a SUP to report a pilot unresponsive when they haven't even entered the airspace yet. Or when they have just entered the airspace, or when the controller signed on all of 3 minutes ago. Most SUP's I know will cut the pilot some slack in those situations unless there is an imminent conflict. Ira __________ Ira Robinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Schwartz 1143713 Posted February 6, 2012 at 09:26 PM Posted February 6, 2012 at 09:26 PM If the information isn't cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ified How often do .wallops occur from both controllers and pilots? An estimate per hour/day or something would be interesting to find out... Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Byrne Posted February 7, 2012 at 01:47 AM Posted February 7, 2012 at 01:47 AM Hi Michael, It varies considerably. I have sat there for a few hours without receiving a single wallop and then there are other nights, where we can be run off our feet with a wallop every few minutes. Weekends are usually busier. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Schwartz 1143713 Posted February 7, 2012 at 02:10 AM Posted February 7, 2012 at 02:10 AM Paul, Interesting stuff. Thank you for the reply I really appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahul Parkar Posted February 8, 2012 at 10:37 AM Posted February 8, 2012 at 10:37 AM Why does this remind me of something that Paul posted not too long ago in another thread Most of the time when I wallop, I don't get a response... or half the time I do get a response "Is he hurting anybody? No? Then just let him be."If you have SUPs telling you this if/when they respond, then you need to contact a senior SUP (I'm one of them) or you can contact Jeff Turner directly at vpsup.... They should not be telling you this. Also if you find that a SUP rated member is online and you haven't been responded to, please do the same. Now Kyle, your statement makes it seem as though they should wait a while unless there is conflict, or are you stating that they must go into CERT and pickup details so they can make a decision on whether this is a repeat offender? And if not, then which one is it, should they wait, should they do it (near) immediately, (within 1-3 minutes) Just wanted to be clear. Cheers! Rahul Rahul Parkar "On second thoughts Nappa, catch it, catch it with your teeth" -- Vegeta Professional Nerd. (Professionally not professional) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Byrne Posted February 8, 2012 at 01:11 PM Posted February 8, 2012 at 01:11 PM Hi Rahul, I think Kyle was just explaining the procedure that we would use when dealing with a non-responsive pilot. As it is, when we attend a wallop, one of the first things we do is access the members cert record. As regards when you should wallop. Coming from uncontrolled airspace or if you've just signed on, I'd say give it 5, maybe 10 mins from the contactme unless you have conflicts coming up. There's always a chance there could be an innocuous/temporary reason why the pilot is not there (stepped out for a smoke, went to the loo etc.). If the pilot has already been in contact with you and then goes unresponsive, please try all available means at your disposal to contact them (text on freq, check with your surrounding controllers, send another contactme) and then wallop us if you get no joy with those. Hope this helps. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahul Parkar Posted February 8, 2012 at 04:32 PM Posted February 8, 2012 at 04:32 PM Perfect! I just got a little confused (and thought the statements contradicted one another) and that explains it perfectly! Cheers! Rahul Rahul Parkar "On second thoughts Nappa, catch it, catch it with your teeth" -- Vegeta Professional Nerd. (Professionally not professional) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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