Finding valid routes

[Scott Valenti 1273690]

Hello-

I'm new to VATSIM, it's only my first day.

However I'm a private pilot in the real world (USA), and have experience with FSX.

I did my first flight, using Squawkbox and VATSIM, direct IFR from New Orleans to Houston. There was a departure controller in New Orleans and a center controller along the way. I was cleared for the flight just fine. Unfortunately I forgot to throttle down as I began my descent and over-stressed my 737-800 and crashed! But that's neither here nor there.

 

What I'm really looking for is help with finding valid IFR routes. I tried to fly direct from Heathrow (EGLL) to Manchester (EGCC), but the tower at Heathrow said my route was invalid, that I couldn't fly direct. I feel overwhelmed by all the tools for figuring out a valid route, and I'm wondering if someone can help? In the meantime I'll keep looking at the website, specifically IFR lessons, clearances, etc.

 

-Scott

[Bradley Grafelman]

Welcome to VATSIM!

 

If you want to try to go for realism, FlightAware has a tool called IFR Route Analyzer that lets you search for recent real-world IFR flight plans between two airports.

 

Otherwise, do the same flight planning steps you'd do in the real world. Get the latest weather information, grab an enroute chart or two (I'd say sectionals, but it sounds like you're flying some tin that's a bit heavier than a C172), and plot a route. Take a look at the SIDs and STARs (if any exist) for your destination/arrival airports, select ones that link up nicely with your route, make sure they are appropriate (i.e. based on aircraft type, equipment, NOTAMs, etc.), and stick them on the ends of your route.

 

EDIT: Additionally, if you're looking for some practical exercises you can do on the network, check out the two pilot cert links in my signature below.

[Scott Valenti 1273690]

Thanks, I think I'm starting to understand. I've looked at some SIDs for Heathrow, and some STARs for Manchester, and a low-altitude chart for routes in between.

[Bradley Grafelman]

If you're planning on flying overseas, things might change a bit. For example, it's probably more common to not file a SID or STAR and instead allow ATC to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign them to you. As far as I'm aware, it's not strictly wrong to file them... just don't be surprised if ATC changes it.

 

EDIT: Heh... just now realized which forum we were posting in, so I probably should have led with the above note. Oops.

[Adam Trzcinski]

For Europe, you can use www.vatroute.net, which has CFMU validated routes between most European airports. If a route is missing, you can request it from the downloadable client. UK has an own website somewhere as well, where they provide routings and if you are really interested in valid routes, you can build your own the old-fashioned way:

 

www.skyvector.com (for lower / upper enroute charts)

http://validation.eurofpl.eu/ (for CFMU validation - reading required)

[Wygene Chong 1089621]

Welcome to VATSIM Scott!

 

Vroute is also an excellent programme for finding routes, as well as being a one-stop-shop for looking up who's online at any point in time. Also, feel free to fly VFR initially if you find the routing stuff quite confusing and you're just getting to grips with being connected to VATSIM. I'm sure you'll be a lot more at home in a C172 than a B737-800

[Johan Grauers]

For the UK and Ireland FAB there's a standard route docomeent which is quite usefull:

 

http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/srd/SRDDOC.pdf

 

 

Off the top of my head LL-CC is something like

WOBUN DCT WELIN T420 TNT

or

BUZAD DCT WELIN T420 TNT

 

WOBUN for westerlies at LL and BUZAD for easterlies.

 

The one back is easier though, on westerlies (which is the most common one at MAN) it's simply "HON", on easterlies it is LISTO "some airway" HON.

[Miguel Frias]

An option is to use Vataware. In the "Top Routes" section you will find the routes that most pilots have flown over the last year for a specific city pair.

 

The one on the top (the most flown) is bound to be a good route since "everyone's flying it"...

 

Whatever case you should make sure to plot the route with any route planner tool that can show you if the route makes sense. It should be relatively linear taking you from X to Y using waypoints and airways that exist.

 

Most sites out there have outdated routes with waypoints that either don't exist any more or are not common.

[Scott Valenti 1273690]

Thanks everyone for all your help!!

 

I examined some SIDs from Heathrow and some STARs into Manchester and came up with the following.

 

[Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming I depart Heathrow on a west-facing runway, I like the WOBUN SID. This takes me over the BUR NDB and northward to WOBUN.

 

Arriving at Manchester, I like the DAYNE route. This takes me from LESTA to TNT and straight onto DAYNE.

 

Then I looked at a low-altitude chart (using SkyVector) to see about connecting WOBUN to LESTA. It seemed like I would be cutting across the airways like a madman, so I added DTY in between.

 

So the route is:

EGLL BUR WOBUN DTY LESTA TNT DAYNE EGCC.

 

However, I still have no way of knowing if a controller would see this as a "valid route"!!

 

I guess I could try it and see what happens?

 

Also, I looked at a route suggested by Vataware, and I'll make that the subject of my next post.

[Scott Valenti 1273690]

I looked at Vataware and saw this route:

 

EGLL WOBUN DCT WELIN T420 TNT EGCC.

 

And I have the following questions:

 

What is DCT? I looked it up on SkyVector and don't see it.

 

I see that T420 is an airway, but why is it specified? Isn't it obvious that to go from WELIN to TNT you take T420?

[Wygene Chong 1089621]

DCT is simply 'direct'.

 

As for knowing whether it was a 'valid route', I think the main point here is that you cannot fly direct from one airport to another, unless it's really close (or unless you're VFR). Otherwise, most routings should be valid provided they make sense and don't breach any local rules (e.g. some SIDs can only be used by props).

[Johan Grauers]

So I even remembered the correct route without looking, I wonder if I spend too much time on this hobby

 

 

Anyhow, WOBUN DCT WELIN T420 TNT is a valid and the standard route between EGLL and EGCC (for LL on westerlies).

 

T420 is an airway that goes up the DTY corridor and is very common for northbound traffic.

 

All airaways are defined in the countries AIP, so if you want to see exactly what point make up T420, what levels you can use, etc etc, then you need to go to the UK AIP ENR section and find the section with lower ATS routes. I will warn you though it is a boring read

[Scott Valenti 1273690]

Thanks for the great replies!! -Scott

[John Wiesenfeld]

Scott,

 

Although folks have given you some excellent suggestions concerning specific routes, let me suggest that you look at the VATUK web site's excellent pilot information section

 

http://www.vatsim-uk.co.uk/pilot-info/

 

Also, VATUK provides VATSIM pilot training which you might find both interesting and challenging, even as a PPL,

 

Have fun. There is so much to learn.

 

John

[Phillip Speer]

If your looking at UK flights then download SimSRD from [url-http://simsrd.myzen.co.uk/]here[/url]. It is a useful utility thats puts the standard route docomeent which Johan linked to in a simple format and also shows the route graphically.

 

Phillip