Spain / FRASAI

[patrick MOUQUET 1251779]

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Edited November 2, 2014 at 08:37 PM by Guest

[Duarte Folgado 1106197]

Hi Patrick,

 

I'm not a controller on Madrid airspace as I control in the neighbor country - Portugal.

I made couple of routes in last month for an event between LFBO and LPPR that flew under Spanish FRA and I think I noticed the very same behavior.

Can you just put an example of one entire route that you're getting troubles?

 

Duarte

[patrick MOUQUET 1251779]

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Edited November 2, 2014 at 08:37 PM by Guest

[Duarte Folgado 1106197]

Hello Patrick,

 

I took a few time reproducing your routes and examples and here it goes what I found:

I used the very same route and did only change the ACFT type and EQPT code to "my standard" ones.

The first route was accepted with success both in PFPX and in the eurofpl.eu: http://puu.sh/a3qDD/fdaa1235e4.png

 

However, the second route is a complete different story as I experience the very same error that you do: http://puu.sh/a3rh8/eba15a329c.png

So, actually it's complaining that the segment is too long but it says that maximum is 0nm witch does not make any sense. I do agree on you that according to the DCT pdf docomeent KORAV DCT KORUL should be available as per LE5117 ID. I really don't know if can be a small bug on the system (witch can be difficult) or it's something behind of that, but as I control in a different airspace I really don't know if there are some extra specific SOPs apart from RAD DCT.

 

I hope that helps you in someway knowing at least you're not the only one experiencing the issue

 

Duarte

[patrick MOUQUET 1251779]

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Edited November 2, 2014 at 08:37 PM by Guest

[Duarte Folgado 1106197]

Exactly as mine yesterday. I checked the timeline availability of the segment and since it's H24 should be not a factor.

Maybe CFMU folks are reading our discussion and solving their issues

 

Duarte

[Randy Tyndall 1087023]

Hate to sound ignorant, but I confess I am. Is "FRASAI" a concept, a procedure, a six character waypoint....what?

 

I have been following this thread trying to get more knowledgeable about European procedures, but this one has me stumped.

 

Randy

[Sebastien Bartosz]

Free Route Airspace Santiago and Asturias

[Andreas Fuchs]

It may well be that there was a bug in the CFMU validation-software and that they have fixed it by now. It is also worth trying weekend days if a route does not work on a normal business-day. I had some trouble there as well last month, because as a Route Administrator at VATroute I have quite a few routes to South America that are crossing exactly this airspace. In the end I could solve those problems, luckily.

[Randy Tyndall 1087023]

Thank you Sebastien, now for some reading on my part...

 

Randy

[Duarte Folgado 1106197]

Hi Randy,

 

In a very general way FRA allows operators to plan a more flexible DCT.

For example in Portugal in a very short way you have something like this:

 

I. Overflight traffic should plan directly from FRA airspace entry point to FRA airspace exit point;

II. Arriving traffic should plan directly from FRA airspace entry point to the STAR initial waypoint;

III. Departing traffic should plan directly from SID final waypoint to the FRA airspace exit point.

 

More info here: https://www.eurocontrol.int/news/free-route-airspace-deployed-europe

(A little old but helps explaining the advantages and current status in Europe).

 

Duarte