Pilot ATC relationship.

[Ben Sibeijn 1133535]

To all those Pilots.... newbies or experienced alike. Please don't disconnect while in the middle of a process, getting clearances, taxi instructions etc.etc.

 

If you not sure of what is going on, getting confused with the layout of the airport maybe you don't like the comments made by the controller. Maybe you don't feel confident enough to communicate.

Or you are not sure of the procedures and took a change. In that case,study the proper procedures and come on line, well prepared.

 

We, the controllers, offer our free time, to give you the pilot ,the opportunity to have fun. But so do we, like to have fun while doing ATC. It works both ways

 

The point is, if you abruptly disconnect without a reason or an apology ,I personally feel frustrated and insulted.

 

In other words it Removed. Profanity filters are there for a reason. NB 870575

 

What ever the reason is, don't disconnect, ask the controller for help if need be.

 

Thank you for understanding.

 

I hope to see you soon, and have fun together.

 

Malta -ground.

Edited April 22, 2015 at 07:12 AM by Guest

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

The point is, if you abruptly disconnect without a reason or an apology ,I personally feel frustrated and insulted.

 

wait one second there so you are telling me you get frustrated and insulted when you lose a target on your scope. i would suggest adjusting that attitude, the same happens on the other side of the scope when controllers close without notice (mind you they are not required to give such, nor are pilots)

 

disconnects are a part of online life, they happen. absolutely no reason you or anyone else should be getting insulted from a pilot/ATC disconnecting.

 

this attitude will not work online, it will only lead to frustration

[Ben Sibeijn 1133535]

From my point of view it is the same as putting the phone down, while I am still still talking. It is rude!

 

If it is a technical problem, I don't mind.,but not while I am are still giving instruction and all for a sudden I am talking to myself

 

I know in the modern world, manners are not so much priority any more. being rude is part of life.

 

And now you are saying because certain controllers are having the habit of disconnecting. It is alright for the pilots to do the same! An eye for an eye? Is that it?

 

 

I am one of the older generation, manners and integrity, is a part of my education

 

Don't know about you?

 

Have a nice day Sir.

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

Ben it has absolutely nothing to do with manners. i dont know how new you are to the internet, but this happens on the internet all the time. again, zero to do with manners.

 

the point is, you are not psychic. you cannot know why the other person disconnected, period. sometimes its technical, sometimes its family, sometimes yes they may even be frustrated and say to hell with it or they may not like the attitude of the pilot or controller. the point again however, you are not psychic so how can you begin to even make a conclusion as to why they disconnected. so why even get worked up over it? absolutely nobody is required to ask permission before disconnecting, end of story.

 

again, this is a very bad attitude to have online, it will only lead to your own frustration. i highly suggest adjusting it before it leads you down the wrong path.

[Joshua Black]

The point is, if you abruptly disconnect without a reason or an apology ,I personally feel frustrated and insulted.

 

Wow, if that insults you, you should not be controlling on this network. If it bothers you now, just wait until you get up to controlling an enroute position. It WILL happen, and you can't do anything about it. People don't have perfect setups. Some people have limited internet and occasionally get timed out. Some people need to go pick up their kids from school. Some people need to go take a phone call. Or if they disconnect, they could be unhappy with the controller's service.

 

Get used to it.

[Ben Sibeijn 1133535]

Ernesto, no I am not a psychic.

 

But it takes just a bit of intelligence and wisdom, to see the difference between a disconnect on purpose or a line failure.

 

What is expected from the pilot and controller side?

Courtesy,manners, and proficiency.

If that is lacking than it will make life of both parties a bit unpleasant don't you think.

 

Concerning disconnecting ad hoc as a controller, you are wrong.

A controller has to remain on line for 1/2 hour after connecting "and announce his retirement 5 minutes before hand.

 

Read the VATSIM regulations, Sir

 

Oh my, If only people would adhere to the regulations and policies and advise of VATSIM.

Would that not be nice. But people are human after all.

 

So maybe I am expecting to much.

 

What do you advise I should to do?

 

Continue to grin and bear

Or resign as controller?

Duh not likely!!

 

Have a nice day and happy landings!

 

regards

 

Luqa ground.

[Norman Blackburn]

A controller has to remain on line for 1/2 hour after connecting "and announce his retirement 5 minutes before hand.

 

Read the VATSIM regulations, Sir

 

Oh my, If only people would adhere to the regulations and policies.

 

Pray tell where is this *rule*? As the person responsible for Conflict Resolution here at VATSIM, nothing exists in Code of Conduct or Code of Regulations saying any such thing.

[Andreas Fuchs]

Hey guys,

 

please don't talk each other into a "rage". I see where Ben is coming from and it simply is not polite if an ATC is prepared to help a an obviously inexperienced member to find his way around and the "thanks" comes in shape of a sudden disconnect. Imagine this happening several times. That is frustrating without doubt.

 

The fact that ATCOs just disconnect in the middle of an online session seems to be phenomen outside of Europe. I am sure that this happens here as well from time to time, but it seems to be more a thing of North America, where people just don't feel like controlling anymore and hit the disconnect button. That is rude, too. Excluding the cases of technical problems, people on emergency call etc..

 

Ben could have chosen his words slightly differently, but in essence I agree with him that pilots do not need to feel embarr[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed or similar if they are not able to make proper readbacks yet. We are here to learn. Together.

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

Ben as Norman mentioned above, what VATSIM regulation exactly are you quoting, it does not exist im going to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume this is something your ACC has in place for their controllers, in which case, its not a VATSIM regulation, its your ACC's policy for their controllers. (there is a major difference)

 

you have some tough times ahead if you are this frustrated at your current rating, wait til you actually start working larger airspace and they start coming and going from all directions.

 

relax yourself. if this is getting to the point where you are getting this heated, and your general attitude in this forum reflects this, yea i would definitely recommend you stop controlling altogether only to avoid what seems to be an eventual blow up, either you will take it out on a pilot, therefor finding yourself in some serious DCRM problems, or you will burn out completely from the stress. relax

 

as mentioned before, this is the internet, it is unavoidable that you will lose a target. get over it, move on to the next aircraft

[Andreas Fuchs]

Yup, some VACCs may have some kind of "gentlemen agreement" for minimum staffing times and that makes perfect sense to me. VATSIM itself has nothing in its regulations about it.

[Ben Sibeijn 1133535]

Let me put you guys in the picture what I get upset about.

I will illustrate my point with some scenarios.

 

Scenario #1 Pilot parked with squawk on Charlie. Private message: captain Squawk S please.

Pilot disconnects. Coincidence? no

 

Scenario #2 Captain alter your altitude to ODD please. Pilot disconnect.Coincidence? no.

 

Scenario #3 Private message:Captain yo are taxiing the wrong way, do you want progressive taxi? Pilot disconnect.coincidence? no.

 

Scenario #4 Captain I cannot hear you your are 2/5 please text. Pilot disconnect.

 

Scenario# 5 Pilot over shoots the runway. I have been waiting for him for a hour to arrive, again to be of service. pilot is on my frequency returns to the runway. While situated on the runway ready for backtrack ( no other traffic in the vicinity!) Pilot disconnects. aargh

These are some of the situations I have to endure.

 

Malta is not a busy station if one is lucky you get 2 or 3 planes a hour sometimes nothing at all So any activity is welcome.

 

Now if after waiting for a hour for the pilot to arrive, because i want to be of a service. Then if these incidents are not upsetting, than either your not as p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ionate about the job, as I am,

or you are so busy with rest of the traffic, that a failure like described before does not bother you at all. Well in my case it does. Hence the the first post.

 

I hope that put some light on the grievance put in the first post.

As I said technical or other reasons are not a factor in these cases.

 

Regards

[Stuart Carey 1314098]

Has it ever occured to you that sometimes peoples simulators crash without warning? Not giving them a chance to inform you.

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

Ben, again, it happens! especially in the landing scenario, many pilots are not interested in taxiing at the end of their flight so they simply disconnect at the end.

 

as a ground controller, you will only ever spend seconds, not even a minute, talking to pilots, especially at a small airport. if you are really that interested in providing a wider service, keep training! move up to positions that provide radar services so you have more time working the traffic.

 

Scenario 1: Leave them alone! wait until they call you to ask them if they can change it to standby, and how you phrase it will make the difference.

 

Scenario 2: arent you trained to provide a reason as to why you need them to change the altitude? you may find carefully wording it also changes how the pilot receives the message, which is also why we have standard phraseology (IE: Altitude not valid for direction of flight, suggest, etc.. )

 

Scenario 3 is unavoidable, it happens especially with younger users, they make an error, they get embarr[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed and disconnect. again, how you word the message may make a difference in whether they would rather disconnect or not.

 

Scenario 4 is also unavoidable, some will simply disconnect if they cant use voice as they dont like using text

 

Scenario 5 see above. unless you guys worked it out amongst yourselves, waiting an hour so you can provide 10 seconds of service, doesnt benefit anyone IMO, which is why many just disconnect after landing

 

i get you dont get a lot of traffic, thats a fact of life controlling on VATSIM, sometimes you get traffic, sometimes you dont. you should not be driving yourself to the point where you are getting stressed over it

[Joshua Black]

You aren't getting the idea. VATSIM is a HOBBY. Regardless of why they are disconnecting, you can not let that bother you... Ever. You aren't being paid to do the job, nor are they. Money isn't being lost. Lives aren't being lost. Seriously. You're getting worked up over nothing.

[Trent Hopkinson]

"Sydney Tower, Velocity 882 request clearance to Melbourne"

 

"Velocity 882 you are cleared to Melbourne via RAZZI, DEENA6 departure, WOL transition, runway 16, Initial climb 5000ft, squawk 4313, departures on 124.4"

 

"Velocity 882 cleared to Melb..."

(FSX crashes, computer bluescreens)

 

How evil of the pilot to let his PC crash! he should apologize!

[Colin Schoen]

Alright, I think the point has been sufficiently made.

[Trevor Hannant]

Ben, some simple things to try to see whether it has an effect on the number of disconnects you experience personally

 

Scenario #1 Pilot parked with squawk on Charlie. Private message: captain Squawk S please.

 

For a departure, leave them be! Is it affecting your ability to control? If they've just vacated the runway and are squaking Mode C, add it to your taxi instruction:

 

"Air Malta 123, Squawk Mode S, taxi stand...."

 

Scenario #2 Captain alter your altitude to ODD please. Pilot disconnect.Coincidence? no.

 

Try a PM. "Hi XXXXX, the flight level for your chosen route needs to be Odd, would you like FLxxx or FLyyy?" Use their name, never had anyone disconnect when I've sent the above - they've always been grateful for the [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance in pointing it out!

 

Scenario #3 Private message:Captain yo are taxiing the wrong way, do you want progressive taxi? Pilot disconnect.coincidence? no.

 

Don't tell them they're wrong, give them an amended instruction - "Air Malta 123, turn next left/right, continue...."

 

Scenario #4 Captain I cannot hear you your are 2/5 please text. Pilot disconnect.

 

Why are they 2/5? Don't tell them to text, tell them why you can't read them clearly - is it volume, is it background noise... Give them the chance to fix it rather than tell them they can't use voice.

 

Scenario# 5 Pilot over shoots the runway. I have been waiting for him for a hour to arrive, again to be of service. pilot is on my frequency returns to the runway. While situated on the runway ready for backtrack ( no other traffic in the vicinity!) Pilot disconnects. aargh

 

He's probably embarr[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed! Don't worry about it - have a chuckle to yourself and carry on!

 

As I said technical or other reasons are not a factor in these cases.

 

How do you know? Have you got a webcam in their rooms watching them or sniffer software that shows they're still connected to the internet through other programs?

 

Honestly Ben, just changing the way you handle scenarios such as the above will make a big difference. Don't tell someone they're wrong, offer [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance instead.

[Tommi Karkkainen 1322309]

just changing the way you handle scenarios such as the above will make a big difference. Don't tell someone they're wrong, offer [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance instead.

 

This is so true. I'm too much of a newbie to comment on how well it works on VATSIM, but I'm speaking in general. Giving negative feedback, critique and corrective instructions is a skill that needs to be learned. Many people have a tendency to take criticism personally - they think that the feedback is about them, when it's really about what they are doing. Careful wording will reduce the chance of the recipient getting the wrong idea. Also, mind the tone of your voice. A clear, informative and friendly voice will go a long way - in many situations.

[Lance Williams]

Just realized this is in the "Come fly with me..." forum. Are you asking us to come fly to Malta? I'll be there! Let me know when you're on.