Tommi Karkkainen 1322309 Posted May 15, 2015 at 07:06 PM Posted May 15, 2015 at 07:06 PM I've been experiencing voice problems with XSquawkbox. The voice reception is ok in general - except that sometimes words and syllables drop out, and I need instructions to be repeated for me. Like this: ATC: taxi to gate ____ via A5 Me: taxi via A5, say again the gate please? ATC: gate is _rv__ 31 Me: gate something three one, still not sure of the letter, sorry ATC: gate is bravo 31 Me: taxi to gate bravo 31 via alpha 5 It frustrates me to have to ask again and again, and I can imagine it frustrates the kind people doing ATC and other pilots as well, since the frequency is busy with say-agains. A few times I've just reverted to text in order for everyone to be able to move on. I'm still quite new to this, so I don't know if this is just normal, or if it's a weird bug I'm experiencing. This doesn't happen everywhere and with everyone. When I tune to a frequency, some people sound just fine and some sound choppy like this. Sometimes everyone sounds fine. The choppy sound might be with a controller or a pilot - seems random. It also seems to me that others can hear everyone just fine. This is why I believe it might be a problem in my end. Speaking of my end, here's some info: iMac 27-inch, Late 2013 OS X Yosemite 10.10.3 X-Plane 10 Global - 64 Bit (from Steam) Logitech USB headset The headset doesn't appear to be the main culprit. I tested it by selecting it as the OS main audio output device, and I can hear music through it just fine. Any ideas or advice are appreciated. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Meese Posted May 15, 2015 at 11:09 PM Posted May 15, 2015 at 11:09 PM Oh, the old tale of the VATSIM voice quality It goes a little something like this: VATSIM is a non-profit organization for all simmers , as much for those who either can not or will not utilize the newest mainstream sim(s), as for those who do. This means backwards compability, which in turn means that old clients and sims that are no longer updated or supported are not to be left out. An upgrade of voice capability means, in the end, to remove access for these simmers. This policy is great, it's very sympathetic, and I'm glad to be with a network that is not closing people out. At the same time, it is indeed frustrating to have the voice quality on par with the tin-can-on-a-string-system developed post-1800. In short, it's a game of compromise. Do you want to compromise on the side of accessibility, or on the side of quality? And now that I've fumed a bit, here's a more specific answer: VATSIM Voice servers might be placed anywhere in the world, the longer your location is from it, the worse the quality will be, and you'll experience more latency and drop-outs. Also, due to the non-profit nature of VATSIM (like all great systems, it has its draw-backs), these servers are not necessarily with the most stable hosts, nor of the greatest quality. As you go from one frequency to the next, you might go from the worst possible voice server for your location, to the best, as ATCs are not restricted to the geographical areas they controll. The voice system doesn't cache very well either (having a buffer of voice-packets in case of sudden lagg, trying to provide un-broken voice in spite of the lagg), if it does at all. In addition to all this, other members doesn't necessarily have great internet connections, which does not help things one bit. So, in the end you're gonna have voice lagg from time to time no matter what you do, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommi Karkkainen 1322309 Posted May 16, 2015 at 07:55 AM Author Posted May 16, 2015 at 07:55 AM Thanks for your reply, Magnus. It goes a little something like this: VATSIM is a non-profit organization for all simmers , as much for those who either can not or will not utilize the newest mainstream sim(s), as for those who do. This means backwards compability, which in turn means that old clients and sims that are no longer updated or supported are not to be left out. An upgrade of voice capability means, in the end, to remove access for these simmers. This policy is great, it's very sympathetic, and I'm glad to be with a network that is not closing people out. At the same time, it is indeed frustrating to have the voice quality on par with the tin-can-on-a-string-system developed post-1800. In short, it's a game of compromise. Do you want to compromise on the side of accessibility, or on the side of quality? That's an easy question. Of course, like you, I wish that everyone who wants to fly with others is able to join us on VATSIM. I also appreciate how difficult it is to maintain backwards compatibility. The voice quality in general, in terms of bitrate or signal-to-noise ratio doesn't bother me. It's only the cuts that do - although it does count as a sound quality issue, as you say. And now that I've fumed a bit, here's a more specific answer: VATSIM Voice servers might be placed anywhere in the world, the longer your location is from it, the worse the quality will be, and you'll experience more latency and drop-outs. Also, due to the non-profit nature of VATSIM (like all great systems, it has its draw-backs), these servers are not necessarily with the most stable hosts, nor of the greatest quality. As you go from one frequency to the next, you might go from the worst possible voice server for your location, to the best, as ATCs are not restricted to the geographical areas they controll. The voice system doesn't cache very well either (having a buffer of voice-packets in case of sudden lagg, trying to provide un-broken voice in spite of the lagg), if it does at all. In addition to all this, other members doesn't necessarily have great internet connections, which does not help things one bit. So, in the end you're gonna have voice lagg from time to time no matter what you do, I'm afraid. What you say here makes sense. I don't think the servers got an incredibly loaded at the time - I did some research on vattastic.com which lets you see what server each controller is using. Yes, you can call any machine a server if it's acting as one, regardless of connections or hardware, so it's possible that the server in particular was lacking in capability - but don't think it's likely, considering how little this kind of voice transmission actually takes. Client side connection stability might explain the issues, including the fact that not everyone's voice is choppy. Before I leave this topic, I'd like to ask a few more questions to make sure I'm on the same page. So: Is it normal that on a frequency there are people whose transmissions get so choppy I absolutely cannot understand them (say, half the words being cut out), but others seem to have no problem with it? Is there anything I can do to help? Donate, or something? Most importantly, how do people cope with this situation? Do they just make an educated guess of what was left out? I suppose that in my example I could have guessed alpha, bravo, charlie or anything as soon as I heard the number. Had I been right, everyone would have been happy; had I been wrong, ATC would have corrected me and the outcome wouldn't have been any worse than it was that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Schoen Posted May 16, 2015 at 08:11 AM Posted May 16, 2015 at 08:11 AM Don't guess as that is bound to lead to incorrect information and confusion. Ask the controller to say again. Colin Schoen VATSIM Senior Network Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommi Karkkainen 1322309 Posted May 18, 2015 at 05:36 PM Author Posted May 18, 2015 at 05:36 PM Thanks for the suggestion, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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