VATUSA Convention - THANK YOU!

[Josh Hjemvick 811983]

Vegas sounds good to me. . . will be out of the military by then (thank god)!

[Justin Deyoe]

A reward is one thing, but I have to agree that 30/however many thousands of users we have is hardly a good statistical cross section to use to ensure maximum attendance.

 

 

I also have to kinda question the method that the decision was reached, yes I believe that it was good to poll the members that attended the convention, but I also believe that a general idea should be gathered from the VATUSA community, there are alot of us out there, and maybe a different idea would be reached.

 

I am not trying to stir things up, just putting my two cents in.

 

Thanks,

 

Justin

ZBW Student

[Nicholas Bartolotta 912967]

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Your just mad because they are better than ATA..... j/k

 

I'm gonna let that one slide without a monstrous reply...

All I will say is -- when AirTran is hemorrhaging cash, ATA will be waving to them from one of our military charter flights, where the military foots the fuel bill

 

Don't put your eggs all in one basket.

[Jeffery Williams 849847]

I'm gonna let that one slide without a monstrous reply...

All I will say is -- when AirTran is hemorrhaging cash, ATA will be waving to them from one of our military charter flights, where the military foots the fuel bill

 

Don't put your eggs all in one basket.

 

Actually AirTran does quite a few domestic military charters.

 

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TRS6705

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TRS6702

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TRS6707

 

ATA had always been only a supplemental airline. They simply picked a bad time to try to turn themselves into a scheduled low cost carrier, so now they are back where they started. It is a tough business.

[Nicholas Bartolotta 912967]

I'm gonna let that one slide without a monstrous reply...

All I will say is -- when AirTran is hemorrhaging cash, ATA will be waving to them from one of our military charter flights, where the military foots the fuel bill

 

Don't put your eggs all in one basket.

 

Actually AirTran does quite a few domestic military charters.

 

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TRS6705

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TRS6702

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TRS6707

 

ATA had always been only a supplemental airline. They simply picked a bad time to try to turn themselves into a scheduled low cost carrier, so now they are back where they started. It is a tough business.

 

I'd say they picked the right time, back in the early 90's when they started Indy-Fort Myers, it was a huge success. They picked a bad time to "go-all-out" expand, when they bought 49 new 737-800's

 

AirTran doesn't rank up there with the military transporters, although as you pointed out they have a few charters...I would be hard pressed to find if they even represented anything over 5% of the total military troop movement flights (including transport via military aircraft).

 

I do agree with you though Jeffery, it is an incredibly tough business. But with the work of dedicated employees, and loyal customers, I really do think it can be successful. I always love this story that ATA's founder, George Mikelsons tells (back when they only flew as a travel club, Amb[Mod - Happy Thoughts]adair, in the early 70's) - http://www.atavirtual.com/misc/busstory.wav - enough proof for me they weren't doing bad in customer satisfaction

 

Anyways, I don't really know what we're arguing about anymore, and I don't want to further get off-topic on this thread. If you'd like Jeffery, I'd be thrilled to discuss ATA's business moves with you, on either another thread or off these forums.

[Isaac Niedrauer 947516]

ATA is only one of many US Military charter companies so I don't see it as being that special. My uncle flies for Air Transport International and he almost never knows what is in the aircraft when flying military charters. He said he's done a bunch of flights to and from Iraq with military escorts.

[Mark Zameda 810257]

Given the choice, I'd rather fly Southwest.

 

At least I get no leg room at a decent price. And the pilots make the flight fun with 4000 ft/min descents.

[Nicholas Bartolotta 912967]

ATA is only one of many US Military charter companies so I don't see it as being that special. My uncle flies for Air Transport International and he almost never knows what is in the aircraft when flying military charters. He said he's done a bunch of flights to and from Iraq with military escorts.

 

You don't think 20% of the U.S. military troops that are transported, worldwide, and including transportation by a military crew, makes it special? Let me break that sentence down into easier terms: 20% of all U.S. troops are flown by ATA. The only one who beats that is World Airways, who handles 22%. In Operation Desert Storm and Operation Desert Shield, ATA flew 496 flights into the desert, carrying over 108,000 troops, and was the largest commercial carrier flying troops in that war. When the first Gulf War ended, ATA was the first aircraft bringing troops home from the gulf to land on U.S. soil. Back in the early 1990's, when there was also the crisis in Haiti, ATA flew over 1,000 U.S. troops, to aid in the evacuation of citizens. At that time, and still today, the military is ATA's largest wholesale charter customer, and roughly 50% of ATA daily 300 departures are military charters.

 

You may not think that is special, but I would say it is

And with that, I will give up my rant's on ATA...back to the normal topic

[Jeffery Williams 849847]

ATA is only one of many US Military charter companies so I don't see it as being that special. My uncle flies for Air Transport International and he almost never knows what is in the aircraft when flying military charters. He said he's done a bunch of flights to and from Iraq with military escorts.

 

You don't think 20% of the U.S. military troops that are transported, worldwide, and including transportation by a military crew, makes it special? Let me break that sentence down into easier terms: 20% of all U.S. troops are flown by ATA. The only one who beats that is World Airways, who handles 22%. In Operation Desert Storm and Operation Desert Shield, ATA flew 496 flights into the desert, carrying over 108,000 troops, and was the largest commercial carrier flying troops in that war. When the first Gulf War ended, ATA was the first aircraft bringing troops home from the gulf to land on U.S. soil. Back in the early 1990's, when there was also the crisis in Haiti, ATA flew over 1,000 U.S. troops, to aid in the evacuation of citizens. At that time, and still today, the military is ATA's largest wholesale charter customer, and roughly 50% of ATA daily 300 departures are military charters.

 

You may not think that is special, but I would say it is

And with that, I will give up my rant's on ATA...back to the normal topic

 

Aren't most of their military charters using the L1011's? They only have 4 of those left. They sold several of their 757's to Continental.

[Mark Brummett]

Given the choice, I'd rather fly Southwest.

 

At least I get no leg room at a decent price. And the pilots make the flight fun with 4000 ft/min descents.

 

Yep, I remember my last flight with SWA; one of the legs was into rwy 8 at BUR. That was interesting. Wheels down, max reverse thrust. It felt like the pilot/FO were going to put their feet through the floorboard jamming those brakes.

[Nicholas Bartolotta 912967]

Aren't most of their military charters using the L1011's? They only have 4 of those left. They sold several of their 757's to Continental.

 

Yep, the L1011's are used now only for military charters, and like you said, there are only four remaining (all -500's, the last -100 ATA had was retired March 1st, and is still sitting at the hanger in Indianapolis being gutted out). However, while the L1011's are now only used for military charters, they are not the only aircraft that operate military charters. ATA uses their 757-200's and -300's on every other route that the L1011 isn't on, and ATA has 10 757's currently. Few of these 757's are used now on scheduled flights, since now ATA has their 737-800's ETOPS certified for Hawaiian flights. But I've heard from some people over at ATA that they are working on getting their 737-800's certified to fly military charters, so it may not be too long till we see some of them being moved to charters.

 

One interesting tidbit about all military charter flights (for any airline) - the U.S. military keeps track of the on-time preformance of the flights, and they have to be on-time at least 80% (I think it's 80%) per month, or they face a fine, or if it goes for a second month, they can loose their entire contract...so with every airline, it's essential they operate efficiently.

[Garry Morris 920567]

Given the choice, I'd rather fly Southwest.

 

At least I get no leg room at a decent price. And the pilots make the flight fun with 4000 ft/min descents.

 

Yep, I remember my last flight with SWA; one of the legs was into rwy 8 at BUR. That was interesting. Wheels down, max reverse thrust. It felt like the pilot/FO were going to put their feet through the floorboard jamming those brakes.

 

I stopped flying Southwest a long time ago for that reason. They get totally crazy putting the plane down. I've crossed the runway threshold in their aircraft more than once in a serious nose down attitude only to flare at the absolute last moment, heard tires squealing going around corners at mach speed (figured I was in a Formula 1 race), very short visual finals (while very entertaining to see the runway just off the nose and you're still approaching it from 45 degrees off the heading).

 

Of course the other reason was that I got tired of the "Greyhound Bus" type environment and people on board.

[Mark Zameda 810257]

You know, that was why I originally didn't fly Southwest.

 

But since United invented TED, and Delta their own stupid low-cost carrier, why not?

[Mark Brummett]

Now that about a week has gone by, I would like to thank the following people for the great time we had at the Convention:

 

First off, to the local guy who made the logistics happen...yes, I'm talking about Mark Zameda. He made it happen with the O'Hare Hilton, from the room discounts to the meeting space and the banquet dinner. Believe me, the last 6 weeks, his stress level was through the roof, despite me telling him to relax a little. It worked out.

 

To both Mark Z and Jeff Turner for birthing this idea, out of a discussion we had in my room at the Dulles Hilton over the VATSIM convention in August. We weren't sure how well this would go over, and for an inaugural event, I thought it went rather well.

 

To Damian Clark of HiFi Sim Systems, for providing two free copies of Activesky to put up as prizes of the drawing.

 

To John Holt for putting up an awful lot of NOAA charts and plates.

 

To Mark Z, once again, for putting up copies of some FAA docomeentation as prizes, and for him raffling off a visit to the REAL Chicago ARTCC which he put together himself. Thanks to the FAA and ZAU for that and providing the projector we used for the presentations.

 

To Dave Klain, who allowed three drawing winners to ride in his Mooney.

 

To the presentation people, Jeff Turner, Mark Zameda, John Holt, Marc Glorioso, Dave Klain and Bill Alderson.

 

To the O'hare Hilton, but especially to a man by the name of Tim Bailey, who made sure our stay was quite good, and he was VERY entertaining in the late evenings in the Gaslight.

 

To Todd Cox, for his vision for the region and listening to my rambling during breaks.

 

To the Gaslight Lounge for putting up with about 12 loud, slightly inebriated VATUSA members and our horrible singing..well, all of us except for Marc 'Thank you very much' Glorioso.

 

Our waitress both nights.

 

Craig Merriman for being one of few people whom I could discuss all things Zappa.

 

Mark Z's significant other for being so sweet to everyone, and has a hell of a singing voice. Mark, tell her I'll send her some QuikTrip goodies..

 

And all the attendees who took a chance on us by buying in to the convention. Hope you all had a great time and hope to see you in Vegas next year.

[Kiel McGowan 813486]

was that a hint to get back on subject

[James Brickell 852953]

To the Gaslight Lounge for putting up with about 12 loud, slightly inebriated VATUSA members and our horrible singing..well, all of us except for Marc 'Thank you very much' Glorioso.

 

Damn, now I regret not going.

[David Franklin]

I wis I could have made the trip to the windy city as I also have family there and would have been nice to go there and see Chicago ARTCC. And as for Vegas, I know the odds were against me. Would like to have one in Houston, but if it had been in Dallas i'd go there. And F.Y.I. you wont have to go far for houston's ARTCC center. It's right down the street from KIAH on JFK Blvd. Hotels are right on JFK and off Beltway 8. Being KIAH is home to Contiental Airlines I'm thinking you should get a lower fare or for the sure lower fare fly to KHOU on Southwest Airlines which is on the SE side of town and only about 30mi between IAH and HOU. Gee am I making a pitch for ZHU

 

Now on the voting process to see where the next convention would take place, I think it would have been ALOT more fair if there would have been a poll online or another voting process so ALL of VATSIM could vote to see where the next convention would be. Just to ask the folks that were there really didn't represent all of VATSIM pilots and controllers. Would most have voted for thier home town that has an ARTCC or major port, probably so. But you would have had a more rounded pic of where to hold it. Or you could list the cities and have folks vote that way. Don't mean to sound like a sour puss about it, but I just think that process needs to be more rounded.

[David Klain 874106]

David, understand what you are saying and I don't want to put words in Jeff's mouth...but you could also make the argument that those who made the financial investment to attend this year's convention have more of a right to decide where next year's is that someone who did not attend or participate this year...and yes, I understand that there are many reasons (time, distance, financial) why people could NOT attend this year. My point is that if VATUSA "owed" (and I use that word reluctantly because I don't think they did) anyone a role in deciding where the convention should be next year, it was the people who went this year.

 

Dave

[David Franklin]

I can see where you're comming from with that David. I guess I'm saying some don't wanna be wondering every year when's it's gonna be close enough for them to go to.

[Ross Carlson]

In my opinion, it should just rotate around the country, choosing cities based on geography and accessibility by low-cost airlines. Perhaps choose a handful of options and post a poll so that anyone actually considering going can vote.

 

I would argue that nobody is owed anything, regardless of how much they paid to go to a convention. If anything, it should be the other way around. Those that could not go, for whatever reason, should have a better shot at going to the next one.

[Jon Paull 860355]

I also hope to attend the convention next year! I will be living in the Salt Lake Area effective January 2007. It would be nice though if the convention was held in the Salt Lake area! Less Traffic and probably not as busy as Vegas! If not next year, the year after would be nice! Anyway, hope to see you all in Vegas 2007!

 

Jon Paull

[Jeff Turner]

Gents,

 

If there is anyone with links to pictures that were submitted, please send the link to my email. We're trying to get that page up in the next few days if we can.

 

Thanks.

 

JT

[Mark Tomassoni 813617]

Jeff, here is my link

 

http://www.marktom[Mod - Happy Thoughts]oni.com/vatusa%20convention.htm

 

Let me know if you need me to email them to you

 

Mark Tom[Mod - Happy Thoughts]oni

DATM KZID

[Mark Brummett]

And mine, but I think I made that link public while in Chicago...not totally sure though...

 

http://forums.zkcartcc.org/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=4

 

Ask why I didn't have that many photos....I was up and down the elevator making sure we had everything needed for the flyin. Anybody have pictures, please post em.

[Josh Rosard 879188]

http://community.webshots.com/album/548943527mUcFoj

 

Its about 10% convention pics and 90% photos taken during the flights (KPHL and KORD airports)

 

enjoy