VATUSA's Progress

[Steven Perry]

Just short of 6 months after Jeff Turner started as VATUSA1, can you see any trends below? [sorry for the dashes, I had a hard time formatting]

 

Traffic counts from VATSIM.net stats

----------------------KDFW---KDTW-----KJFK----KLAX-----KMSP----KSEA

February 2005----1009----309-------1034----1888------216----632

November 2005---1666----855------1773-----3741-----538----1364

February 2006----1678----1391-----2181-----3553-----552----1742

 

 

 

-SP

[Ethan Klapper 884347]

I sure do!

 

Great job Jeff et. al.!

 

EK

[Richard Walsh]

How much of that is in direct relation to Jeff? Didnt SB3 and FSInn come out last spring? No offense to Mr Turner but I would think Joel and his team and the team at FSInn had more of a direct affect to the traffic increases.

[Steven Perry]

How much of that is in direct relation to Jeff? Didnt SB3 and FSInn come out last spring? No offense to Mr Turner but I would think Joel and his team and the team at FSInn had more of a direct affect to the traffic increases.

 

25 March 2005 SB3 was released. By November 2005 the novelty of SB3/FSInn would have worn off and things were back to normalcy. There has been no major new software between November and February 2006 and traffic continued increasing. If only ATC hours were as easy to tally up...

 

SP

[Nathan Sleyster 878239]

What? You're telling me one man did all that? I'd more likely attribute those numbers to increased member numbers and activity.

 

There are those of us at ZSE who have been working hard to get our controllers online to attract more pilots. This includes training and promoting them to a quality level. Last month was a record month for us.

 

I'm sure Jeff is doing a great job, but I fail to understand the connection between increased numbers and "VATUSA1."

[Jeff Turner]

All those increases in hours have nothing to do with just me folks. I'm not solely responsible for the success of the division, the ones you should be congratulating are the ATMs, DATMs, TA's and the guys that plug in for those numbers.

 

So, hats off to those ARTCCs for sure!

 

Those are interesting numbers however!

[Paul Heaney 879309]

This includes training and promoting them to a quality level."

 

When did this happen?

 

ZSE's training program is one of the worst I've seen. the ATM and Chief Instructor regularly sacrifice Quality for Quantity. Like the Guy that did his C1 OTS in Stages, because he couldn't handle a complete OTS all at once, Excuse me? Stages?

 

Or how about the guy on SEA_TWR a few months back that was also working PDX_TWR from a SEA_TWR Callsign. huh?

 

Or the Student that was doing his OTS not to long ago, with the Chief Instructor overseeing it, made countless errors, left a couple people hanging on their clearances for over 15 minutes, because they were on text, and he forgot about them, and p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed him anyways, with flying colors.

 

Sorry to Hijack the thread, but when I see this, I have to say something. Kudos to the ZSE Folks for the online time, now lets see some of that quality from the Higher Ups, shall we? ZSE is a cool place, but the training program is well.....

 

When I was DATM, I was told to try and push more people through, because they didn't want to "LOSE" Any controllers. I'll be damned if I'll do that, unless they are ready. Well, I'm not a DATM ANymore, so that's a good thing. I had Pride in what I did.

[Ross Carlson]

Paul, I was starting to wonder why you were taking personal shots at ZSE until I saw this:

 

When I was DATM...

 

Bad blood perhaps?

 

Either way, this is not the place for personal stabs at a facility.

[Richard Jenkins]

I'm always amazed when people decide it has to be one or the other, quantity or quality. I would think we are capable of both.

[Paul Heaney 879309]

No bad blood Ross, I left because of that. I wish they'd take more pride in their controllers, but it's just not happening. The Students deserve more.

 

Yeah this isn't the thread for this, I was responding to Nathan's comment, I've done that, lets to back to what the thread is about.

[Josh Hjemvick 811983]

A lot of things happened, and I certainly would not point directly to Jeff's position as the catalyst.

 

VATSIM's numbers as a whole, have increased significantly, by at least 10% from last year.

 

Congrats on your new position at ZOB as well Steven, what a coincidence.

[Ernie Alston 812154]

25 March 2005 SB3 was released. By November 2005 the novelty of SB3/FSInn would have worn off and things were back to normalcy.

 

The numbers for 2005 don't really support this.

 

After SB3 was released the traffic numbers went up for just about every division and have yet to go back to the pre SB3 levels.

 

It makes sense to me, for pilots SB3/FSInn are much easier to setup and use than SB2 was.

 

Regards.

Ernie Alston.

Albuquerque ARTCC.

[Steven Perry]

Well, I see my point was 99% missed. Sorry for being positive, I'll revert to nitpicking and pessimism for the rest of the day. Sorry for the temporary lapse in judgement.

 

Jeff Turner wasn't the sole cause of all this, but it seems logical to say that his taking office was a turning point. His support crew generally share his vision, I'd imagine, and I know first hand that he does an excellent job motivating and rallying his troops. It's like saying that Admiral Lord Nelson single handedly defeated the French fleet. It was the people who harvested the trees that eventually made the ships and those mined the ore for the cannons too, and the men who manned the cannons, and the officers on his ship, and the officers on his other ships.

 

VATUSA as a whole, heck probably VATSIM as a whole, has come a long way this past 12-13 months in terms of traffic, time online, software, etc etc etc. The community is growing bigger and stronger. That was my point. A big boost came from SB3 and FSInn. That the growth has been sustained within VATUSA under Jeff's leadership is a sign of progress. I hope that VATUSA continues to develop in the same general direction it has been heading.

 

And because a few of you missed the points of my previous post, let me beat you to the point.... Yes, I know Nelson died at Trafalgar. I don't expect Jeff to die during a battle with VATCAN and that we'll fly his virtual remains back to VATUSA HQ and enshrine him as a organizational hero to be worshipped for all eternity. No, we're not even fighting a war. So really, you see, the analogy to Nelson is a bit of a stretch. I could have just as easily referred to a US president and the changes that happen from administration to administration. They are not all the result of the one person who was elected. But to do so would have brought up politics and the mandatory heated exchange over politics. So please don't go there.

 

And finally, a reminder that I'm finding I have to say more and more often... HAVE FUN! If you ain't havin fun, you might want to ask yourself if you're in the wrong place.

 

SP

[Nathan Sleyster 878239]

This includes training and promoting them to a quality level."

 

When did this happen?

 

ZSE's training program is one of the worst I've seen. the ATM and Chief Instructor regularly sacrifice Quality for Quantity. Like the Guy that did his C1 OTS in Stages, because he couldn't handle a complete OTS all at once, Excuse me? Stages?

 

Or how about the guy on SEA_TWR a few months back that was also working PDX_TWR from a SEA_TWR Callsign. huh?

 

Or the Student that was doing his OTS not to long ago, with the Chief Instructor overseeing it, made countless errors, left a couple people hanging on their clearances for over 15 minutes, because they were on text, and he forgot about them, and p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed him anyways, with flying colors.

 

Sorry to Hijack the thread, but when I see this, I have to say something. Kudos to the ZSE Folks for the online time, now lets see some of that quality from the Higher Ups, shall we? ZSE is a cool place, but the training program is well.....

 

When I was DATM, I was told to try and push more people through, because they didn't want to "LOSE" Any controllers. I'll be damned if I'll do that, unless they are ready. Well, I'm not a DATM ANymore, so that's a good thing. I had Pride in what I did.

 

Paul, I'm not sure what happened when you were DATM as I was busy with real life stuff during that time, but I can [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ure you I've never seen that kind of stuff. Myself, and many others were pushed hard to become good controllers at ZSE. Yes, we've had increased online time. But behind the scenes are the INS/MEN's who put in the time and effort to make sure our students are doing things right. We have set our bar high, regardless of what you might have seen when you were here. This brings me back to the point of the original thread: You can have quality AND quanitity. Quality controllers bring the quantity of pilots. I hope the quality of our training program speaks for itself when you all fly in our airspace. And Paul, if you have any more comments about our training program or something else about ZSE, feel free to email me.

[Gerry Hattendorf 935415]

Well if I could jump out of the trenches for a moment, would like to share my experiences about VATSIM.

 

I'm a realitivey new controller, received my operating initals in Aug 05. and work for a busy ARTCC. I'm a S3, and working toward my C1, and further. I'm not doing this because I'm going to real-world ATC, (at my age, I p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed that about 20 squares ago) but because I enjoy the commradarie and conversations with both pilots and ATC.

 

I will continue to provide VATSIM/VATUSA with the best ATC service that I can provide, because 1)I ENJOY IT 2)I think the pilots have alot of fun too!

 

All the other political issues aside, what JT, or RJ or any of the BoG people do are really not my concern, if they 1)Continue to maintain the VATSIM network resources (aka funding and maintenance) , 2)Continue to recruit new members that enjoy this hobby, and 3)Maintain order and purpose for the community, that's my take. After all guys/gals, this is a FREE network! I applaude you for that!

 

I for one would be happy to donate my time to help make this even better, but I'm not going to turn in some kind of "lobbyist" and scream the "guy did this, or did that [Mod - lovely stuff]". If I ever get to that point, then I know that 1)I need to get a life, 2)Better setup some therapy or just resign from VATSIM.

 

Okay, I'm finished now, I'm going to up those stats a bit more, as I'm headed back to the scopes! (Or maybe I should enroll in an English 101 cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts])

 

Off the soapbox,

 

Gerry Hattendorf

[Todd Kolmodin 822397]

 

When did this happen?

 

ZSE's training program is one of the worst I've seen. the ATM and Chief Instructor regularly sacrifice Quality for Quantity. Like the Guy that did his C1 OTS in Stages, because he couldn't handle a complete OTS all at once, Excuse me? Stages?

 

Or how about the guy on SEA_TWR a few months back that was also working PDX_TWR from a SEA_TWR Callsign. huh?

 

Or the Student that was doing his OTS not to long ago, with the Chief Instructor overseeing it, made countless errors, left a couple people hanging on their clearances for over 15 minutes, because they were on text, and he forgot about them, and p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed him anyways, with flying colors.

 

Sorry to Hijack the thread, but when I see this, I have to say something. Kudos to the ZSE Folks for the online time, now lets see some of that quality from the Higher Ups, shall we? ZSE is a cool place, but the training program is well.....

 

When I was DATM, I was told to try and push more people through, because they didn't want to "LOSE" Any controllers. I'll be damned if I'll do that, unless they are ready. Well, I'm not a DATM ANymore, so that's a good thing. I had Pride in what I did.

 

Wow.. Paul.. That is some splitting hairs at the folks in ZSE.

 

Perhaps when you left you had some issues with the group in ZSE.. but I can [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ure you that we have a strong Mentor group and our Execs including our TA work in close contact with one another regarding training and advancement of our students. ZSE has a high bar for students and continue to groom students to our expectations in ZSE. If you have specific issues with the operations of ZSE please contact Brad or myself on these issues.. There is no reason to post them here..

 

Regards,

 

Todd Kolmodin

ZSE DATM

ZSE Staff Training Mentor

[Paul Heaney 879309]

Todd, Just the 2 folks at ZSE, no one else. I'm not in ZSE, so I see no need to contact, you, brad or anyone else. I did however contact Jeff Turner, when I left ZSE, but I'm still waiting to hear back.

[Andrew Tunall 900330]

Paul,

 

I take personal offense at your message. The training program we have developed in the past few months has been one of the more superb ones in VATUSA. We currently have several Instructors, and a mentoring program which has been consistently putting in 10-15 hours per student before they even ponder taking a VATUSA exam. Perhaps your time at ZSE was different, but all things change with time, and ZSE has certainly changed for the better. Ask some of your friends at VCAir who regularly fly into ZSE, as well as a variety of other VAs which have hosted events in our airspace in the past few months. We have received nothing but rave reviews.

 

Before you begin making accusations and flaming hard working, dedicated people in VATUSA, get a life and think about what you say. If you perceive there to be a serious problem with the level of controllers available at ZSE, I'd like you to meet several of the new students we have, many of who are private pilot / commercial pilot certified and putting in hundreds of hours a week.

 

Cheers mate, hope you are enjoying your time in Jacksonville ARTCC. Meanwhile, I hope not to hear a damn thing from you. There is no room for people who have nothing better to do than trash on hard working dedicated folks in our hobby.

 

Andrew

[Paul Heaney 879309]

Thanks for the chuckle, made my day. I'm off to bed. G'Night!

[Dave Pascoe 824425]

Guys-

 

Don't feed the sniping troll. He's already famous enough.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how these threads degenerate so quickly, and for a volunteer organization at that.

 

Geez. Aren't we, as a group, better than that?

[Paul Heaney 879309]

Ahh Dave, you call a name in one sentence and say, Aren't we better than that, in the next, apparantly your not.

 

Last post I make in this matter, the ZSE folks and now ZBW want to keep this thread down the wrong path, by all means, keep it up. I'm done posting about it.

[Dave Pascoe 824425]

Well, Paul, I obviously don't meet your high personal standard of behavior. Only you do.

 

Maybe it's you who should consider not hijacking threads in public forums to carry out your little personal vendettas and temper tantrums. I keep quiet on these forums but there are a few very visible personalities here who make the forums a lot less pleasant to visit.

 

Have a great day. Go do something positive.

[Norm Hare 907837]

Guys-

 

 

 

It never ceases to amaze me how these threads degenerate so quickly, and for a volunteer organization at that.

 

Geez. Aren't we, as a group, better than that?

 

Dave,

 

I have made the same observation. If you are familiar with the term "Beer Muscles", I believe a similar thing happens on forums. It becomes very easy for an individual to intimidate, badger and otherwise admonish another human being while sitting in the comfort and safety of ones own domocile. I suspect if some of these people sat around a table in a locked room, they would probably be a bit more cordial to one another. If I am wrong, then there would be physical violence and then we wouldn't have to put up with these shinanigans any longer. Sometimes it's hard to tell who are the mature adults in these forums. I for one find these tyraids embarrasing and at the moment find it difficult to admit that I belong to VATUSA.

[George Marinakis]

Norm...I think you are absolutely correct and your analogy of "beer muscles" is a particularly good one. There is a disturbing trend of late on the forums where a select few individuals think nothing of making derrogatory references to others, disparaging former [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociates and otherwise saying things that they would NEVER say if they were sitting in the same room with these people. If someone dares to disagree with their viewpoint, it seems they resort to name calling and otherwise quickly lose their temper. Civility seems to be losing ground of late. Fortunately, it is only a select few individuals that think this is an appropriate way to conduct themselves in public (if it were more, I think we would all be going crazy about now) but the numbers seem to be growing.

 

Before anybody else starts screaming about censorship and "forum police", I am not talking about respectful disagreement. Compared to other online organizations, I am proud that VATSIM is as open as it is when it comes to posts which disagree with one thing or another. You won't see moderators coming in here and killing posts or threads which disagree with a staff member's (or even the BOG's) decisions. If they don't have thick skin when it comes to criticism, then they won't be moderators for long on our forums. Constructive criticism and disagreement, however, is not what we are talking about here. There's a big difference between that and people with axes to grind who simply want to engage in "verbal fistfights". I think we are going to become much less tolerant of the latter.

 

I would strongly suggest that if your intent is to merely "mix it up" with people on the forums by not being civil that you should think twice before doing it. You are walking a fine line when you do so and you need to remember that your forum access is a privilege and not a right.

[Nicholas Bartolotta 912967]

I agree with Norm & George. A great example of this is the VATUSA convention, which was incredibly civil, and actually we all (I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume we all) had a great time!