Why isnt VATSIM free for all?

[Johnny Coughlan]

Why should a vACC who use Euroscope because it closely resembles their own country's real life ATC system offer training/support on a client(VRC) that is primarily based on a U.S. System?.

 

Remember staff and mentors offer their personal free time to help members which means they've to dedicate time to studying and familiarizing themselves with the software they train their members on, if the vACC chooses to dedicate their time and resources to one ATC client so they can offer a better service for 99% of their members who will choose that ATC client then what is the issue?.

 

Code of Conduct says and I quote :

 

"To log onto the VATSIM.net network, pilots must have downloaded and installed approved pilot client software and controllers must have downloaded and installed approved controller client software. Approved software is listed and a download link is provided on the VATSIM.net website. Each of these programs comes with operating instructions. In addition, there are many tutorials that have been developed which instruct in the use of these programs. Since flying and providing ATC are extremely intense activities, a person should become familiar in the basic use of these programs prior to logging on to the VATSIM.net network."

 

Approved Air Traffic Controller clients are as of now :

 

VRC (Virtual Radar Client)

ASRC V1.2

SPARC

Euroscope

vSTARS

vERAM

 

So if I interpret this rule correctly, it is the reponsibility of the VACCs to advocate and provide updated info for these softwares for its members.

It is therefore information to all, not the selected few.

 

An Official VACC must provide, through their website, the necessary information for virtual Pilots and ATCs to operate within its airspace. This should include:

 

Other downloads (e.g. sector files, POF-files, scenery information, etc)

 

So it is my understanding that Vaccs should maintain sectorfiles and provide mentoring for the software clients want to use.

Basically it is the VATEUDs responsibility if the local VACC cannot fulfill their responsibilites.

 

And in all honesty, Euroscope sectorfiles can easily be made to work with VRC. I've done it, takes less than an hour.

 

That is the spirit, cudos to you sir!

 

In that case, it's even easier for the user if he wants to use VRC, but I still consider it the users task to make (and maintain) the other sector files and not the mentor/staff's valuable time. And training shall be given in the main controller software, in this case Euroscope.

 

There is now main controller software on vatsim, there are main controller sofware(s) in prural.

Voluntaring for a staff position is by own choice, the member that do so (thank god) does this with the intent of doing volunatry work. And if this work applies to them updating

sector files for all the "alternative" client software, then they need to do this or walk away.

 

It is the reponsebility of the VACC to maintain updated sector files, not the ATC member. If the VACC do not do this, they are breaking rule $2.1 and are applicable to have their status revoked by VATEUD

 

 

§ 2.4 - VACC Status

 

A VACC may be rendered unofficial by the unanimous decision of VATEUD Director, Deputy Director, Membership Manager, ATC Department Lead and Pilots Department Lead. A VACC may loose its official status when one or more of the criteria outlined in § 2.1 are not met for a period of more than 3 consecutive months.

 

 

So we should all ask our selves this "Do we need to revise the rules to specifiy what software that is used pr. vACC and or are there to many already approved by VATSIM?

This is of course way over my head and most likely never to be discussed based upon this thread, but for what it is worth it is my opinion and feeling on the matter.

 

I believe ATC Software boils down to what is realisic to you as a controlling member of VATSIM.

 

Experienced members want realism no doubt about it. But as it may be cool in the eyes of the few, it can be terrifying in the eyes of the rest.

Learning curves should have an gentile rate of climb and realism should be implemented adjacent to this curve. So therefore the right client software to that member

is the correct software to use for mentoring in my eyes.

 

Realistic scopes and local realistic procedures is way cool (at least I think so), but for us it is fun and something to aim for.

In real life it serves an purpose, lives are dependant by it. Pilots in the real life dies if local procedures or directions from ATC are followed.

So therefore it is implemented and used, knowledge levels equally neccesary.

 

VATSIM is as real as it gets in the sense it is an platform with applied realism in an virtual environement provided by people of all ages, thank god for that.

 

 

Code of Conduct says further, and this is important to remember.

 

Remember, the primary goals of VATSIM are to educate, to provide a realistic simulation of flying and air traffic control and, most importantly, to provide a fun environment for everyone to enjoy our hobby.

 

Realistic simulation will always be in the eyes of the beholder. But as long as we ATC provide the best possible realism they know how, both pilots and fellow ATC will have lots of fun regardless of the software or planes used on VATSIM.

 

Why should a vACC who use Euroscope because it closely resembles their own country's real life ATC system offer training/support on a client(VRC)

 

VRC is an approved software by VATSIM and in this case VATEUD, and if this software is realistc in the eyes of that member, nobody should deny them the right to use it or even deny them training/mentoring or even sector files for it.

 

 

Thats my opinion anway, I am just an simple aviation geek with lot of strange opinions

 

You're take shots at people giving up their free time over them not supporting a piece of software 99%(100% in my vACC's case) won't use?.

 

I've seen people complain over petty things on this network in the past but you take the overall award .

 

You'll find in reality new members are more than happy to use the client suggested by the vACC because it closely emulates the real life system their country uses.

 

But hey as a mentor dealing with students what do I know eh?, I guess as you should said I should just walk away and my vACC close up shop.

 

Bye folks! .

[Tom Knudsen]

Sarcastic remark do not help sir, please refrain from it. We could rather agree to disagree right? If you decide to leave the network, its all up to you sir, hope you dont. Regardless of what software you decide to teach your student, you should also respect the students wishes, no? Many of us already have done our turn as mentors and staffs, we know what you know sir even though experience can differ.. Student training and vacc politics are important to discuss and whilst some ideas forces members away, some bring them back. Sadly there are more leaving than returning.

 

If we decline mentoring for returning or new ATC due to a perticular client software, well what are we then?

[1275389]

I don't think there's any requirement to teach every client. Would you, if you were a mentor, like to sacrifice time that you could be using to train students, in order for ONE student to get his wish of learning a completely foreign client and making files for it (let's use ERAM, since ot's pretty complex)?

No, you wouldn't. It's a poor use of resources.

[Thimo Koolen]

So if I interpret this rule correctly, it is the reponsibility of the VACCs to advocate and provide updated info for these softwares for its members.

It is therefore information to all, not the selected few.

 

An Official VACC must provide, through their website, the necessary information for virtual Pilots and ATCs to operate within its airspace. This should include:

 

Other downloads (e.g. sector files, POF-files, scenery information, etc)

 

So it is my understanding that Vaccs should maintain sectorfiles and provide mentoring for the software clients want to use.

Basically it is the VATEUDs responsibility if the local VACC cannot fulfill their responsibilites.

 

And as far as I'm aware, your understanding here is wrong. Other download can (and probably should) be interpreted as downloads for the main ATC client used by the Vacc, other than the client itself. So that does mean sector files etc. It doesn't mean all these files for all of the clients.

 

Staff members do volunteer their time, yes. That means they aren't paid for it so they can't be required to support all of the clients. I'd rather have them support one ATC client and train people on them. This ensures a great quality of training. If said person likes a different software better, they are free to use it, but must learn it themselfs and maintain updates themselfs.

[Kyle Ramsey 810181]

There is no requirement to support more than one ATC client by local facilities with sector files. If they choose to nothing stops them, but no requirement. No amount of internet lawyering will change that expectation.

[Simon Kelsey]

Tom,

 

You have talked a lot in this thread about your time freely given and your sacrifice in order to provide ATC services.

 

As has been mentioned above, spare a thought for the time of the staff, also given freely and with zero thanks in order to enable you to enjoy the hobby. Some members of staff may even have time to do some controlling of their own, when they're not mentoring, updating the websites, creating resources and docomeents, etc etc etc.

 

As this is a community built upon the contributions of all of us, I take it that you are volunteering to produce and maintain the docomeentation for the use of all other ATC clients within Scandinavia? Good man. I look forward to seeing detailed information on the use of VRC, ASRC, vSTARS and vERAM.

 

When will it be ready? I'm looking forward to trying out these clients.

[Tom Knudsen]

And as far as I'm aware, your understanding here is wrong. Other download can (and probably should) be interpreted as downloads for the main ATC client used by the Vacc, other than the client itself. So that does mean sector files etc. It doesn't mean all these files for all of the clients.

 

Thank god it got clearified

 

There is no requirement to support more than one ATC client by local facilities with sector files. If they choose to nothing stops them, but no requirement. No amount of internet lawyering will change that expectation.

 

Thanks for sorting this out Kyle..

 

Tom,

 

You have talked a lot in this thread about your time freely given and your sacrifice in order to provide ATC services.

 

As has been mentioned above, spare a thought for the time of the staff, also given freely and with zero thanks in order to enable you to enjoy the hobby. Some members of staff may even have time to do some controlling of their own, when they're not mentoring, updating the websites, creating resources and docomeents, etc etc etc.

 

As this is a community built upon the contributions of all of us, I take it that you are volunteering to produce and maintain the docomeentation for the use of all other ATC clients within Scandinavia? Good man. I look forward to seeing detailed information on the use of VRC, ASRC, vSTARS and vERAM.

 

When will it be ready? I'm looking forward to trying out these clients.

 

Already did serve my time as VACC staff, did play my role as mentoring and for the sake of discussion, I have also done many years of voluntary work for communities such as AVSIM. Every airport, scenery, coding, modeling, texturing and etc. has been free and for the community. Heck I even did ground data for sector files ones and tutorials to come free of charge.

So yea I am not affraid of doing contributed work for the community, heck I still do that everyday anyway

 

Perhaps vintage ATC controlling will be coming back for nostalgic reasons LOL Should anyway be an option for those wanting to use VRC or ASRC, who am I do deny them that, especially if I was a VACC staff, mentor or Director!

 

Isnt Euroscope built on the same foundation as ASRC and VRC or any of the other programs approved? S

Should not be that difficult to make sector files for or update those that are. Belive it was mentioned in this thread too.

 

I am now active controlling again, I might try both VRC and ASRC too, just for fun

 

 

NB

Still have all the old sector files for ASRC and VRC, so there's a good start right

[Thimo Koolen]

NB

Still have all the old sector files for ASRC and VRC, so there's a good start right

 

As long as you update the sectors to the current AIRAC, I think you'll be fine