Question about after landing contact

[Tyler Sexton]

When landing you exit the runway, then get a handoff from tower to ground, my question is when watching alot of videos most simmer stop, get the clearance for taxi then proceed...but watching and flying real world flights they never stop after exiting the runway..so the question is how can real world pilots switch to ground and taxi so quickly without even stopping..almost as if they knew they were gonna get a certain taxiway. Just a bit confused how real world ops go, since i personally have never been on a flight that stopped after clearing a runway to contact ground for taxi clearance (but i obviously know they did, but there was no pause in movement)

[marcus holmes]

I think the main reason is that in the real world you have two pilots in the cockpit, one can taxi the plane while the other talks to ATC and changes frequencies, whereby in the flightsim world unless shared cockpit of course there is only one pilot that needs to deal with everything.

[1275389]

There are also times where you are not supposed to switch frequencies. I find this to be very common in the US at airports with multiple runways.

[Joshua Black]

Also, many times controllers will name the taxiway that the aircraft should turnoff at with an instruction to contact ground all while the aircraft is still decelerating or making its way to the next exit. By the time the aircraft exits, the PM is usually already in the process of contacting ground for further instructions.

 

For me, I use FS2Crew on many of my flights. So once we are through 60ish knots, I'll issue the command to cleanup, and while that's happening, simply flip-flop the radio to the ground frequency that I set on a standby comm before landing. Being a pilot in the realworld, I always try to stay ahead of the airplane and plan for what's next... Frequencies, certain clearances, trying to think about "If happens, I will do "

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

another thing to remember, which most simmers fail to do, your aircraft isnt clear of the runway until your aircraft completely p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]es those bars, including your tail. what often happens with simmers is they think they are clear when the wheels or nose crosses, which is not correct. what often happens in the real world is youll see the aircraft continue going because they have to clear that runway, which isnt far in a 172, but in something like a 777 or 747, or even A380, you can imagine how far they need to go to clear it, even if it means they need to get on the taxiways, which the controller may give you instructions how they want you to clear, then p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] you to ground. the controllers have already coordinated this between themselves ahead of time

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Another couple of advantages that the pros have over us casual Simmers are consistency and familiarity.

 

By consistency, I mean that the professional commercial pilots landing 737s on the same runway all the time will have approximately the same landing roll each time. Obviously there are variances for landing weight, wind, temperature, humidity, and other performance factors beyond the pilot's control, but the pilot is pretty much going to put it down the same way at the same speed and the same braking power nearly every time.

 

Add to that the fact that it may be the hundredth time they've landed on that same runway, or even the thousandth time, and they're pretty much going to know in advance where ATC is going to tell them to turn off.

[1275389]

There are also times where you are not supposed to switch frequencies.

I think this was slightly missed. For instance at Miami, when you vacate 8L/26R to the south, you remain with Tower until crossing 8R/26L. Additionally, if you land 9/27, you (for the most part), remain with Tower until crossing runway 12/30. In some cases, you might remain with Tower until you are at the gate (usually only the Supers and 74s).

My point here is that you can't always [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume that you can switch to Ground and be good. You might end up holding up traffic if no one know who's frequency you are on. Just my thoughts on this.

[Martijn Rammeloo]

At EHAM, you are supposed to switch to GND by yourself, after vacating, unless otherwise instructed by TWR ('after landing, remain my frequency'). Also, you are not supposed to stop on the exit (not to mention the runway...). So, you vacate the runway, taxi onto the nearest (one-way) taxi track and (if you haven't spoken to GND by then) stop there and contact GND. Ofcourse we fully understand that there is only one pilot with a lot tasks that have to be performed at the same time.

 

Traffic & time permitting, TWR will give you instructions that will avoid having you stop at all: 'after vacating, turn left onto taxiway A, then contact GND on 121.8'.

 

Obviously, pilots unfamiliar with the auto-handoff procedure will vacate the runway, and stop on the exit, often creating 'interesting' situations.

 

Martijn

EHAM APP controller

[Tyler Sexton]

Thank you everyone for the replies! definitely cleared up my confusion.

[Thimo Koolen]

At EHAM, you are supposed to switch to GND by yourself, after vacating, unless otherwise instructed by TWR ('after landing, remain my frequency'). Also, you are not supposed to stop on the exit (not to mention the runway...). So, you vacate the runway, taxi onto the nearest (one-way) taxi track and (if you haven't spoken to GND by then) stop there and contact GND. Ofcourse we fully understand that there is only one pilot with a lot tasks that have to be performed at the same time.

 

Traffic & time permitting, TWR will give you instructions that will avoid having you stop at all: 'after vacating, turn left onto taxiway A, then contact GND on 121.8'.

 

Obviously, pilots unfamiliar with the auto-handoff procedure will vacate the runway, and stop on the exit, often creating 'interesting' situations.

 

Martijn

EHAM APP controller

 

I actually dislike our auto handoff procedures at EHAM. In theory, it should reduce the work load for controllers, but a lot of pilots don't know about these procedures, so they stay on the frequency, especially annoying after takeoff. That's why a controller should keep track of who's on his frequency, and give additional instructions ("Contact Departure on 121.2"), which increases the workload.

[Martijn Rammeloo]

Hi Thimo,

 

I see what you mean. You are correct that a lot of non-regular visitors don't know about this (despite the Pilot Briefing...), and act accordingly. Since you - as a controller - have to actively check if (instead of [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume that) the pilot is still on your frequency, the workload is actually increased.

 

However, this is a real-life procedure at EHAM, and therefore we simulate it. This also applies to the auto hand-off from TWR to departure at 2000ft.

 

Martijn

[Thimo Koolen]

Hi Martijn,

 

I know, EHAM is my home airport You know who I am, so I know that real life procedures are simulated. The problem is that the majority of pilots do not read the pilot briefing. To be honest, I don't read them for all airports as well (for a few, I do read most of them). If it was written clearly on the charts, there would be a lot less problems.

 

On my Navigraph Charts (which uses the Lufthansa Lido charts), it's shown clearly in the SID description charts. Not only the auto-handoff, but also the initial climb (which not every pilot knows as well):

 

 

Unfortunately, most people use the default AIP charts, which aren't as clear in these restrictions. Actually, it isn't even on the charts. It's in the huge AIS-Netherlands briefing, somewhere between 1/3th and 1/2th on the page:

 

 

That's the problem: for the majority, it isn't clear. It's in the pilot briefing, but not everyone reads that.

[Andreas Fuchs]

This is a known problem at all airports that feature SIDs with cleared altitudes and other procedures that can be found on the respective charts.

 

The main issue is the lack of training for our pilots and resulting from this a lack of understanding of procedures, namely clearance limits. How else can we explain it? When, as a pilot, you receive your departure-/IFR-clearance , you always, always, always need to have a lateral and a vertical clearance limit. This basic piece of knowledge must be imprinted more firmly into the minds of our members. So, if a controller clears me only a departure route (=lateral track), but does not provide me with a vertical clearance limit, then I need to ask myself "what have I missed?". Go, check the charts or ASK the air traffic controller. I rather have a pilot admitting to not having charts (but a current FMS-database), I happily provide him with the vertical clearance limit and also with a URL to find our charts. Normally we are able to judge whether a member has a lot of experience or not. If not, I sometimes provide less experienced pilots with the initial cleared altitude, when issuing their IFR-clearance. This is not 100% realistic, but it saves us from getting too many headeaches. Nobody is perfect, let's face it.

[Martijn Rammeloo]

Hi Thimo,

 

I surely know who you are, and I am well aware of your knowledge about EHAM

 

Whenever a pilot calls me on my freq, I always hope he read out pilot briefing. At the same time, I accept that this is hardly ever the case, and we are operating in a learning environment after all.

 

Martijn