Innsbruck and Sion questions.

[Dave Wild]

As part of our winter holiday schedule I love flying into the above airports but have a couple of questions about both of them.

 

1) Easiest first. Can anyone tell me the aircraft size limit at Sion? looking at the scenery in FS it appears that a 737 or similar sized aircraft would be too big?

 

2) Innsbruck arrivals and departures require visual 180 degree truns in the valley. The ones at AB and RTT are not too bad, the valley is quite wide there but what about the base leg for RWY08 and the 180 over Zirl for a RWY26 departure?

 

On the base leg for RWY08 I find it difficult to pick out the turning point which, IIRC, is before the power lines split in two.

 

The 26 departure, how the heck do you find Zirl, especially in the dark? Do RL pilots have a much better view than we do in the sim or is Zirl much easier to spot in the real World, and how can you tell how close the avlley sides are when making that turn?

 

Any helpful suggestions for doing these procedures in FS9 appreciated.

[Dieter Brugger 810604]

Hi Dave,

 

1. Aicraft up to 737-700 is ok, as in real life.

 

2. The approach to rwy 08 is a visual approach beginning at AB NDB proceeding with a right hand circuit to rwy08. The turning point back to the rwy shout be about over the split of the power lines.

 

3. The small village of Zirl is about 3 NM west of the airport. You will not be able to find it in the FS9 unless you use (buy) the Austria Professional Scenery. However it should be possible to locate Zirl using the LOC DME (OEJ) distance (treshold rwy 26 + rwy lenght + 3NM).

 

Hope this helps

[Tobias Niederhauser 866959]

Charts for both airports are available here... Just select LSGS for Sion and LOWI for Innsbruck

 

cheers, tobi

[Dave Wild]

Dieter and Tobias,

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Tobias, I have the charts, my question was really about visual clues to perform the turns.

 

Dieter,

 

Thanks for the aircraft info, I tried to find the information myself but could not do so. i am surprised that 737s go into Sion, that apron looks really small.

 

2) I must look closer at FS scenery for that power line split, but can you see it in the dark and at normal seat height in the sim?

 

3) Thanks for the OEJ marker, I'll try that next time I fly into Innsbruck.

[Dieter Brugger 810604]

but can you see it in the dark and at normal seat height in the sim?.

 

Nope, you will not see it in the dark. Don´t know if my seat is at normal height, but yes I see it in daylight. However the power line might be part of my addon scenery and looking different from default scenery. I use Austrian Airports 2005 addon.

[Patrick Hrusa 829042]

Hi!

 

Well Dave, RL Pilots doesn't have those problem at night, cause LOWI is closed at 8pm local time.

Ok during winter times, it will be dark.

But Zirl isn't really small. So there are enough lights to indicate Zirl.

 

I'm not sure yet, but it is possible, that departures from rwy 26 and landings into rwy 08 are not used after ECET.

 

You can also check out: http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/

AIP LOWI AD 2

[Dave Wild]

Thanks for the extra information Patrick.

 

I was practicing the turns the other evening (off line) and used Dieter's suggestion of using OEJ as a DME marker and checking on FSNav for position. I have now made notes to use in future practice runs before I do it for 'real'.

 

I will also check out eurocontrol.

 

Many thanks all.

[Andreas Fuchs]

Hi Dave!

 

I have performed the approach training at Innsbruck just a few weeks ago (real world, on a Citation 560XL Excel). We had nice weather so it was not too hard. One of the curcial things about Innsbruck is the correct speed and as a consequence the correct configuration of your airplane. The tight turns should be flown at a maximum of 150kts (on my plane), rather less (max 135 kts for CAT B aircraft during circling). So you should consider being almost fully configured before the steep turns (low speed and low or no flap-settings will bite you!). Innsbruck, Sion and Lugano are places that require a lot of airmanship from pilots: think ahead, have a strategy regarding NAV-settings, configurating the plane and speed-management, cross-check your altitudes versus the DME at all available points, be aware of the terrain, never trust things going well.

If you consider all this stuff, you should be able to shoot nice approaches to these places. For Sion we have even added a nice description of the approach and a strategy, all in plain words. You have probably seen it already.

[Dave Wild]

Thanks for the RL input Andreas, soomer you than me

 

From your description I was too fast in the turns at LOWI. I was using the Project Fokker 100 and was about 155kts. I cheated and paused the sim when abeam AB to check my radius which was 1nm according to FSNav, I'll try slower next time.

 

Sion I'm reasonably happy with and I do have evrything VAC-SAG provide for that location.

 

BTW When I had an Nvidia card I would go to stereo view with Anaglyph gl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]es for the Sion approach, that is an awsome view and the nearest I'll ever get to what it's like for real.

 

Thanks to all for your valuable hints, tips and suggestions.