Flying in Canada

[Jim Hurst 1353723]

Hi guys. I'm planning a bunch of flights from USA to Canada and I have two quick questions.

 

1> Is there anywhere online to get current Canadian charts (Enroute, Airport, DP's, STARS)?

After poking around some, the only ones I could find (IVAO) are at least 5 years old...

 

2> Would someone be able to clarify, in a nutshell, any significant procedural differences between flying in USA vs Canada that I should be aware of?

 

 

Thanks in Advance,

Jim

[Sebastien Bartosz]

fltplan.com - free registration required

 

No major procedural differences, mostly phraseology.

 

Airspace cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] structure is a little different, nothing much though.

[Jim Hurst 1353723]

Thanks Sebastien - that website was quite helpful!

 

Cheers,

Jim

[Marc Wheeler]

2> Would someone be able to clarify, in a nutshell, any significant procedural differences between flying in USA vs Canada that I should be aware of?

You will find that flying in Canada is almost identical to flying in the US.

Regards,

[Lindsey Wiebe 1101951]

Old thread but a big difference that I found, in RL anyways, was that in Canada if ATC or chart says stay below 8,000ft for instance, you can be at 8,000; in the USA you better be BELOW 8,000 like 7,800 or less. I got my head chewed off once in a Navajo flying CYVR to KBFI and was cruising AT 8,000 (can't remember the actual altitude but I was at it and not well below it).

[Ross Carlson]

Old thread but a big difference that I found, in RL anyways, was that in Canada if ATC or chart says stay below 8,000ft for instance, you can be at 8,000; in the USA you better be BELOW 8,000 like 7,800 or less. I got my head chewed off once in a Navajo flying CYVR to KBFI and was cruising AT 8,000 (can't remember the actual altitude but I was at it and not well below it).

 

I don't recall ever encountering such a restriction. Did it come from ATC, or from a chart?

[Andreas Fuchs]

On VATSIM or for real?

[Lindsey Wiebe 1101951]

Old thread but a big difference that I found, in RL anyways, was that in Canada if ATC or chart says stay below 8,000ft for instance, you can be at 8,000; in the USA you better be BELOW 8,000 like 7,800 or less. I got my head chewed off once in a Navajo flying CYVR to KBFI and was cruising AT 8,000 (can't remember the actual altitude but I was at it and not well below it).

 

I don't recall ever encountering such a restriction. Did it come from ATC, or from a chart?

 

The chart (again I don't remember the specifics) said there was airspace above me starting at 8,000 and up to whatever, so in Canada we would fly at or below 8,000; the controller (ok he didn't chew my head off but being questioned on air feels like it) stated "confirm you are below the airspace starting at 8,000" to which I thought 'well ya dude I'm not above 8,000' but replied "confirm below 8,000" haha and descended a few hundred feet. I spoke to some other pilots who flew into the states regularly and they confirmed that if an airspace starts at x alt and up you must be BELOW x alt.

[Lindsey Wiebe 1101951]

On VATSIM or for real?

 

Real life for sure Andreas! I'm pretty sure no VATSIM controller would call someone out for that, they'd just be happy I'm holding an altitude haha.

[Ross Carlson]

Ahh, yeah, makes sense for airspace such as when you fly below a bravo shelf. When I read your post I was thinking of altitude clearances issued by a controller.

 

I'm surprised that this is different in Canada. If, as you say, the chart says that the airspace starts at 8000, then if you fly at 8000, you are IN that airspace. I would never fly at 8000 and think I was outside that airspace ... I would always fly with a buffer so there's no ambiguity. I've only ever flown in the US, though. (Although I fly pretty close to the Canadian border, out of BTV airport. )

[Lindsey Wiebe 1101951]

The rule is the same but controllers are more strict about it, you know we have that Canadian attitude just don't cross that LINE!

[Ross Carlson]

Haha, yep ... I always keep one eye on the moving map when I'm flying in the northern end of Vermont.

[Marc Porlier]

Also, watch out for 8 reindeers pulling a sled...

[Jim Hurst 1353723]

Interesting anecdote, Lindsey -- thx for sharing it.

 

I was thinking similarily to Ross when I initially read it as well, but the clarification made perfect sense - for an airspace separator, AT = IN unless specified otherwise (using "above" or "below").

 

As a follow-up to this thread, now having made several flights into Canada, I haven't encountered any significant differences. The only thing for me is that most of those Canadian charts [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume RNAV. I fly /A with the default B737 and default scenery, so many of those intersections and nav points don't exist for me.

 

Fortunately, the VORs are all there, and most of them are quite close to the cities they serve (YVR, YYC, YEG, YUL, etc.) so I make do with those and vectors (either ATC, when they're on, or, PFA when they're not ). For the most part, the controllers have been very accommodating, so it's been a pretty good experience so far.

 

I suppose, one of these days, I gotta knuckle under and get me one of them newfangled FMS computer gadget thingies in my plane, and update the scenery with all those spiffy NAV points I suppose, but in the meantime, those flights have gone pretty well, except for a divert to Great Falls, MT once, due to weather below minimums into YYC (Yep, I hand fly my ILS approaches and the WX was dicier than I wanted to deal with).

 

So, it's been fun, and I'd recommend other VATsim pilots from the USA to wander up to The Great White North once in awhile if they're so-inclined.

 

 

Cheers,

Jim

[Bradley Grafelman]

for an airspace separator, AT = IN unless specified otherwise (using "above" or "below").

Yep, same as in US; a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] D airspace ceiling depicted as "[24]" on a sectional means 2,400 ft MSL is within the Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] D.

 

Just for fun, here's an example of where that changes:

 

 

The Brackett airport's Delta airspace extends up to but not including 2,700 ft MSL, denoted by the minus sign preceding the altitude in the blue box. That's because KPOC is under the outer ring of the Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] C airspace surrounding KONT, and you can see in that area the floor of the Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] C airspace is 2,700 ft MSL.

 

I fly /A with the default B737 and default scenery, so many of those intersections and nav points don't exist for me.

No reason they couldn't, if you wanted; updating the built-in database of GPS intersections is pretty quick and painless thanks to this website. That would allow you to use the built-in GPS panel.

[Lindsey Wiebe 1101951]

Actually i never thought to recommend the default GPS!!

 

I use it in my Carenado PC12 to do RNAV approaches; it's a bit of work to get used to the click spots, but once you have gotten the hang of loading the FP into the FSX flight planner you can update that as needed. Then you can actually select RNAV approach's or GPS approaches. There's no cuppled VNAV but it will give you your LNAV and you just work the altitude hold per the chart. There are tutorials in the Learning Centre (yes re... I'm Canadian remember!) which teach you to use the default GPS for IFR approaches.

[Milan Cruz 1318107]

I love flying in Canada !