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Class D and Class C operations question


Alan Phillips 908353
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Alan Phillips 908353
Posted
Posted

Hi,

This is my first post, so be gentle

 

So I want to do some circuits at KLWM (Lawrence Municipal, MA), which in the real world has it's own Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] D airspace and ATC. Its is also within the Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] C airspace of KBOS (Boston).

Given that Lawrence does not typically have ATC, do I contact Boston center to get clearance to do VFR circuits and training around the airfield ?

 

I did try researching, but ended up even more confused.

 

Thanks very much.

 

Alan Phillips.

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Bradley Grafelman
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The Boston TRACON services that airport (e.g. "BOSTON APPROACH" is listed under Airport Communications on LWM's AirNav page), so if LWM_TWR wasn't online, the next position up that is likely to be [Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming the role of LWM_TWR would be BOS_APP. (If there was BOS_DEP and no BOS_APP, you might try checking with them as well.) Failing that, yes, BOS_CTR would simultaneously be every APP/DEP, TWR, GND, and DEL position within ZBW, so you'd want to check with that controller for local services at LWM.

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Alan Phillips 908353
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Thank you very much Sir !

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Ernesto Alvarez 818262
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keep in mind that the service is going to be totally workload dependent. they arent going to be handling you in the pattern there while also working a lot of traffic at Boston etc.. in those situations theyll simply tell ya that they arent offering services to the field at the moment and send ya to unicom. in which case, stay in the bubble, dont stray out of it, otherwise youll need to call them to get in the airspace.

 

and just to throw it in the mix, there are areas in VATUSA that do not handle cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] D services at all. i doubt Boston is one of those places, but just something to be aware of. of course you wont easily know who does/doesnt unless you fly there often enough to get to know their procedures, so always good practice to simply make the call as you normally would, theyll reply accordingly

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Don Desfosse
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Boston controllers do indeed provide service for their Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] C and D fields.

 

Nice to see someone else who likes KLWM. I fly out of there RW (and will be in the morning!).

Don Desfosse
Vice President, Operations

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Alan Phillips 908353
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keep in mind that the service is going to be totally workload dependent. they arent going to be handling you in the pattern there while also working a lot of traffic at Boston etc.. in those situations theyll simply tell ya that they arent offering services to the field at the moment and send ya to unicom. in which case, stay in the bubble, dont stray out of it, otherwise youll need to call them to get in the airspace.

 

and just to throw it in the mix, there are areas in VATUSA that do not handle cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] D services at all. i doubt Boston is one of those places, but just something to be aware of. of course you wont easily know who does/doesnt unless you fly there often enough to get to know their procedures, so always good practice to simply make the call as you normally would, theyll reply accordingly

 

So if I understand you correctly, I should always contact Boston (amusing there's not ATC at Lawrence) and let them know my intentions and then just let them decide what level of service they can or cannot provide based on their workload. But always make the call with my intentions first, right ?

 

I am trying to learn as much as possible before delving in. I took the P1 course and exam and I've been sitting in GA parking at busy airports listening and getting to know the flow of Vatsim. Appreciate all the help.

 

Thanks, Alan.

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Alan Phillips 908353
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Boston controllers do indeed provide service for their Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] C and D fields.

 

Nice to see someone else who likes KLWM. I fly out of there RW (and will be in the morning!).

 

Ha ha, totally ! I live in Pelham, NH and actually used to live right next to KLWM in Bradford. KASH is technically my closest airport, but I think that's controlled by Manchester, so its probably crickets on Vatsim.

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1275389
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I also should mention Boston is a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B airspace, which means you need explicit clearance from BOS APP/DEP to enter it. As Ernesto said, if they aren't providing services, just stay clear of the bubble (or upside down wedding cake as some call it).

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Alan Phillips 908353
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just stay clear of the bubble (or upside down wedding cake as some call it).

 

What exactly is the 'bubble' Josh ? Best I ask these things here first, right ?

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Ernesto Alvarez 818262
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basically the airspace around the field. the airspace overhead is basically like a tiered wedding cake (upside down) as Josh mentioned.

 

within those tiers, youll have varying altitudes that tell you the base and heights of those section.

 

I dont know the Boston airspace by heart but where i fly at KTMB (Miami Exec) is also below a Bravo, MIA's cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B. its a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] D thats below the Bravo. the cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] D goes up to about 2500ft, then above that we have about another 2500'ish ft to play with before we hit the shelf of the Bravo airspace (if im remembering my info right, been awhile since i last went up. ) basically thats what we called our bubble. as long as we are in that, we are clear, although with sharp eyes as thats the approach path

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Alan Phillips 908353
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Thanks Josh ! Understood.

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Ernesto Alvarez 818262
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also just another note, looking at the sectional chart. it appears this airport is actually outside of the Bravo, not in it nor below it.

 

what you might be mistaking as being in it and as a cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] C ring is the large magenta ring. thats not an airspace ring, thats the mode C veil. basically, any aircraft operating within that ring must have a mode C transponder turned on while inside of that ring. some aircraft in the real world, for various reasons, dont have transponders at all or communication equipment. they would not be allowed into that ring (without FAA approval)

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Don Desfosse
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Nashua is just as quiet on VATSIM as KLWM. Very.

 

Manchester's approach services are provided by the Boston Consolidated TRACON, Merrimack, NH.... Many years ago, they combined the Boston TRACON and Manchester TRACON into one facility. So you need not worry, if flying out of KASH or KLWM, either way, if those Towers are not online, but BOS_APP is, they'll take good care of you.

Don Desfosse
Vice President, Operations

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Camden Bruno
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Nashua is just as quiet on VATSIM as KLWM. Very.

 

Although, Boston Virtual ARTCC's Pilot Ratings Program has several flights that go into/out of ASH. Therefore, depending on the day, it can get a few planes.

 

Alan, as some of the other folks in this thread have hinted, it is very rare one of our controllers will deny service to a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] D airport. They would have to be very busy. If you're interested in gaining knowledge and experience with Boston-area airports, I encourage you to apply here to join Boston Virtual ARTCC as a pilot member. We are an integrated community of pilots and controllers who operate within the Boston (ZBW) ARTCC. While we have members from all around the world, a lot of us live within the ZBW airspace.

 

As a pilot member, beyond having a place to hangout and meet friends, fellow enthusiasts, etc. you can also participate in our Boston Virtual ARTCC (BVA) Pilot Ratings Program (PRP). This program brings you around the Boston airspace and introduces you to new airports along with a variety of different procedures ranging from simple VFR pattern work to advanced instrument approaches. It will develop your skills as a pilot and, upon completion, qualifies you for the P3, P4, and P5 VATSIM pilot ratings.

 

Let me know if you have any further questions.

 

Best,

Cam B.
VATSIM Supervisor

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