How dedicated can you be to Vatsim?

[Roger Curtiss]

We have hundreds of virtual airlines that have teamed with VATSIM to be listed as Partner Virtual Airlines and their interest and presence is most appreciated. The VAs represented offer a variety of flight opportunities from General Aviation to bush flying to the overwhelming majority of airline VAs offering scheduled commercial service.

Despite the range and variety of flying, they all share at least one common attribute-that is the requirement that at least 15 of their pilots have logged at least one flight representing that VA on VATSIM within the preceding 90 days. Most of our Partners have little difficulty meeting this requirement as evidenced when verified by periodic audits.

 

However, what we do not have are, to my knowledge, any VAs that require that ALL flights for their airline be flown online. Frankly, I am rather surprised at this and so I present a challenge to any existing Partner VA or any VA seeking Partner status to adopt this requirement.

 

In fact, if any VA that is not currently a Partner should institute a 100% online policy, I will waive the requirements that a VA must have been in existence for a minimum of 6 months and that it have a roster of at least 20 pilots.

 

We fly and act as ATC on the network because it offers the most realistic and sometimes challenging experience in home flight simulation. Increasing the number of participants by having VAs require the use of the network is a boon for everyone involved.

 

I am also prepared to create a special cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ification of VA Partners that do have such an online requirement in order to provide them greater exposure to pilots seeking to join a virtual airline.

 

So...any takers?

[Colin Schoen]

Sounds like a great idea! More flights online means a busier and more realistic for our controllers and pilots.

[1275389]

I like this idea.

[Sean Harrison]

Agreed, but the VSOAs I have flown for it was no time claimed unless online.

 

Speaking for the negative (so to say), the thirty minutes away rule tends to upset this for me.

 

If my VA mandated VATSIM time as proof of flight, then I think I'd be more inclined to focus on short hauls, and if I kept doing long hauls, I'd have to push the thirty minute rule. We ask pilots to disconnect if they are away from their keyboard. I do this often ATM. But I guess I'd loose a lot of my flights with the VA if they mandated 100% online.

[Sean Peterson]

We have a requirement of at least 75% of flights must be done on Vatsim at vUSAF. This gives some the option to disconnect when they are on long haul missions as Sean has said previously. We encourage our members to fly online as much as possible to increase the realism and help with advertising.

[Roger Curtiss]

If my VA mandated VATSIM time as proof of flight, then I think I'd be more inclined to focus on short hauls, and if I kept doing long hauls, I'd have to push the thirty minute rule. We ask pilots to disconnect if they are away from their keyboard. I do this often ATM. But I guess I'd loose a lot of my flights with the VA if they mandated 100% online.

 

As with most proposals, the devil is in the details and all the particulars of this one have not been fully established.

The spirit of the idea is to do more than merely suggest that pilots fly on the network. In the implementation thereof it would not necessarily be necessary for a pilot to spend 100% of a very long flight at the controls and logged on to the network.

As long as a VA manager, VATSIM audit manager, or anyone else could see from the VATSIM Statistics page that a flight was recorded (not necessarily the entire flight-perhaps a specified minimum portion of it)) then it would count.

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

i know of several that require all of their flights to be flown on the network American Virtual Airlines is one i used to belong to. however I do believe they've started accepting offline flights again, or so I was told anyway not long ago. that, after over a decade of being a VATSIM online only VA

[Roger Curtiss]

i know of several that require all of their flights to be flown on the network American Virtual Airlines is one i used to belong to. however I do believe they've started accepting offline flights again, or so I was told anyway not long ago. that, after over a decade of being a VATSIM online only VA

 

Thanks Ernesto. I would be interested to know to what VAs you refer.

If you are in contact with any of these VAs, please have them consider becoming Partners (if they are not already).

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

joinava.org (AvA) above and FedexVAC ( fedexvac.org )would be the last two i was with that were online only. both long standing Partners

[Roger Curtiss]

joinava.org (AvA) above and FedexVAC ( fedexvac.org )would be the last two i was with that were online only. both long standing Partners

 

Thanks again.. I will check their policies out and contact them.

Much appreciated.

[Hal Butts]

joinava.org is still an online only VA.

[Roger Curtiss]

...and fedexvac.org is not accepting new applications until January.

 

I was a member of AvA years ago and did not recall that they were VATSIM-only (all my flights are online anyway) but seeing that now I have just re-joined! I shall be plying the skies as AAL612.

[Andrew Ogden]

I fully support this idea. I will see what I can do about KiwiJet Virtual Airlines becoming 100% VATSIM!

[Roger Curtiss]

Thanks. Just the sort of response hoped for.

[Bailey Pellow 1334275]

I do wonder if we could implement an API for PhpVMS that automatically signs those up that aren't already, because as Exec Director of KiwiJet Virtual Airlines, I think it would be unfeasible to have a 100% policy, purely because it's too difficult for pilots to find out about and fly on VATSIM.

 

It's not streamlined as well as it could be, meaning that we aren't seeing as much integration as we could.

 

So if we're signing people up when they sign up for a VA, and then allowing them to select their VAwhen they sign up for VATSIM. Obviously this latter option would be impractical, which is why VATSIM could allow a VA tier system. There's the VATSIM Approved VAs (those operating with the API on their registration form) and then Partner VAs. This would ensure that all pilots for the VA running the API are VATSIM members, and overall increasing the chance that they'll fly on VATSIM because it's there, for them. The pilot doesn't actually have to do anything, making it easier for them to just fly on the network.

 

Just an idea

[Marc Wheeler]

After 10 hours, we require all our pilots to fly online , so I would definitely support this.

 

Regards,

[Roger Curtiss]

I do wonder if we could implement an API for PhpVMS that automatically signs those up that aren't already, because as Exec Director of KiwiJet Virtual Airlines, I think it would be unfeasible to have a 100% policy, purely because it's too difficult for pilots to find out about and fly on VATSIM.

 

It's not streamlined as well as it could be, meaning that we aren't seeing as much integration as we could.

 

So if we're signing people up when they sign up for a VA, and then allowing them to select their VAwhen they sign up for VATSIM. Obviously this latter option would be impractical, which is why VATSIM could allow a VA tier system. There's the VATSIM Approved VAs (those operating with the API on their registration form) and then Partner VAs. This would ensure that all pilots for the VA running the API are VATSIM members, and overall increasing the chance that they'll fly on VATSIM because it's there, for them. The pilot doesn't actually have to do anything, making it easier for them to just fly on the network.

 

Just an idea

 

Perhaps it is just me, but I have no clear idea what you are proposing here.

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

from what i gather, he was thinking of something like being able to have new VA applicants who dont have a VATSIM membership to do it on the VA's registration form so they can sign up to both.

 

but IMO thats not a good one, for one, opens the registration up to spam registrations. also new pilots will basically be missing out on the bigger picture, missing all the content available on the networks pages itself. we already see that on the VATSIM facebook page, some people dont even seem to know the network has a website, shockingly

[Roger Curtiss]

It also begs the question: How many pilots sign up for a VA without first being a VATSIM member?

It seemed like a logical progression to me that a pilot would learn about the network and then discover that there are VAs utilizing it.

 

Even if the opposite is the case in a significant # of instances I feel it is the responsibility of the VA to make the pilot aware of the network...and what better way to do so then saying "If you want to fly with us, you WILL do so on VATSIM".

 

While I see the value in a directed signup to VATSIM from the VA site there is the potential problem of vetting the pilots before they are accepted as VATSIM members and that is best done by VATSIM itself. Certainly, a VA can post a link to the VATSIM website so the pilot can initiate the signup procedure.

[Randy Tyndall 1087023]

When I was a crew base manager at Virtual Southwest I had many new pilots join the VA without being a member of VATSIM.

 

My welcoming letter provided the link to VATSIM.net as well as the offer to help them become a member.

 

Being a member of a VA before joining VATSIM is not as uncommon as you might think. I was the opposite. I discovered VATSIM first and then found the VA Partners section and went from there.

 

Randy

[Luke Kolin]

It also begs the question: How many pilots sign up for a VA without first being a VATSIM member? It seemed like a logical progression to me that a pilot would learn about the network and then discover that there are VAs utilizing it.

 

Since you asked....

 

Looking back at the data over 15+ years it's around 50% for both Delta Virtual and Air France Virtual. I track VATSIM IDs separately for both applicants and accepted pilots, and for any given year around 50% of our applicants already have a VATSIM ID when they register. (Whether it's valid or not is another question, but that's perhaps a 1% or 2% rate). The number climbs pretty quickly after they've joined.

 

I'm curious to see what data other virtual airlines have regarding the composition of their applicants versus their overall pilot body and how things change over time. But from this perspective at least, the progression in a significant number of cases is virtual aviation towards online ATC, rather than the opposite.

 

Even if the opposite is the case in a significant # of instances I feel it is the responsibility of the VA to make the pilot aware of the network...and what better way to do so then saying "If you want to fly with us, you WILL do so on VATSIM".

 

With respect, this is a partnership. My definition of the term involves the concepts of mutual benefit and reciprocity - if we take certain actions that benefit the other party, we should also be receiving some sort of mutual benefit.

 

Over the past ten years, the proportion of our flights logged on VATSIM has been on a slow decline. We peaked at over 52% in 2006 and have been slowly declining since then. We hit an all-time low in 2014 with 35% of our flights on VATSIM and have only recovered slightly since then to around 38%. I think a significant amount of that decline and bounce has been due to software challenges that vPilot addressed; the remainder is unfortunately secular.

 

Any virtual airline that has been somewhat agnostic towards online networks would be faced with the potential loss of a significant proportion of its membership and flight volume. And while online-only may lift volumes among other demographics, I'm not sure I can get a 175% lift among online fans. Speaking personally, online is a tough sell amongst 30-50 year olds who have a career and family and my observation is that this demographic tends to have the right combination of maturity and pragmatism needed in this hobby, and not something we always see.

 

Stepping back from this specific proposal, I have a question - it's clear and quite rational for you to want VATSIM's partner to do more to support VATSIM. Given the commonly accepted definition of partnership, what ideas do you or others have for additional things that VATSIM could to do support its partners?

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

[Randy Tyndall 1087023]

Any virtual airline that has been somewhat agnostic towards online networks would be faced with the potential loss of a significant proportion of its membership and flight volume

 

I tend to agree. Again, while Crew Base Manager I had 19 pilots in the crew base, out of some 160 total VA pilots. Senior staff was (maybe still is and may have already done so since I left) considering making flying on VATSIM mandatory for membership. I thought that was a little extreme, and I am a big fan and user of VATSIM, so I queried my pilots. Of the 12 pilots who responded to my email, 9 said they never or rarely flew on VATSIM. The biggest reason was being "tied" to the computer while flying. Of those 9, all of them said they would have to leave the VA if that requirement was placed on them.

 

Senior staffs' reaction was "let them go".

 

I think an "all-VATSIM" VA is a great idea, but turning a VA that wasn't before into one now is a mistake in my opinion. As Luke mentioned, membership and flights will reduce. I'll go a step further and add perhaps to drastic scales. I say this because I've seen firsthand the reaction to such a propasal.

 

Pilots coming in after the change know up front what to expect. Existing pilots may take offense at the move.

 

Randy

[Bailey Pellow 1334275]

OK so what if the airline agrees with VATSIM to commit to working toward 100% online within a timeframe?

 

This would be easier for us, as we'd begin with setting targets low (25% online) and gradually, as our pilot base acclimatises, building to 100% as a policy. This would involve potentially a significant amount of drive (consistent even) from our staff team, but it would minimise the impact such a drastic imposition such as a policy of 100% online would have on our existing pilots.

 

This means that the airline receives the Partnership, and is regularly audited by the Regional VA Auditor to ensure that it is reaching goals and progressing toward the 100% policy within the agreed timeframe.

[Roger Curtiss]

Bailey:

 

Your idea did not go unnoticed or unconsidered, however, I am told that it would require compliance from all VAs involved and a m[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ive amount of data rendering it technically not practical at this time.

 

However, be [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ured that we are continuously searching for and considering ideas to improve the VA experience with VATSIM and any such ideas are welcomed.

[Scott DeWoody]

There haven't been any updates recently, so I thought that I'd reiterate that AvA, joinava dot org is/has and will always be a 100% online VATSIM only VA.