Flight Radar 24

[Frank Martinelli 1316586]

I am from Australia and have been on Vatsim for quite a while. Was flying into Edinbrgh, Scotland, recently in my Cessna 172. There was no ATC and there was one other aircraft on the ground who had come in from London. I chose the best runway for landing into the wind and made the appropriate radio text calls on unicom. Was then politely told that another runway was the active and that i should have checked Flight Radar 24. Have not heard this before. What is the Vatsim policy on this? Thanks.

Edited December 15, 2016 at 07:40 AM by Guest

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

is no policy on this. you are the pilot in command of the aircraft, you decide on what works best for you, regardless of another pilots opinion on the matter.

 

when there is no ATC, there is no "active". this is one of the common nonsense issues on the network, if the other pilot wants to play ATC, they need to log on as one.

 

in the real world we use common sense. if all the other traffic is landing and taking off in a certain direction and conditions are suitable, go for it. if someone is practicing with tail winds, then they are sure to be coordinating with the other traffic. its hardly ever the issue its made out to be online.

 

flightradar can be used as a guide. not an absolute "must" use that runway just cause.

 

if there was only 1 other aircraft, not an issue the other pilot even needs to worry about

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

i personally simply ignore those types of users. not even worth the time

[Simon Kelsey]

Arrgh!

 

"Check FR24" is one of my absolute bug bears. It drives me bananas when people start directing people to it as the way to determine the runway in use, and your experience is precisely why.

 

We have perfectly good resources readily available and 'standard equipment' for absolutely everybody on the network -- the VATSIM METARs (.metar XXXX in the pilot client) and and the aerodrome charts which contain details of preferential runways and the tailwind limits [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated with them. If we just used these basic resources, as you did, and made informed decisions based on the (VATSIM!) weather and our own operational requirements instead of blindly copying the real world without understanding what is going on and why, it would be much more straightforward. In real life ATC have various reasons for the way in which they use the runways and it does not always make sense in our virtual environment -- for starters, we only get a weather update every 30-60 minutes, whereas in real life in the tower they have access to much more instantaneous weather data. Forecasts (which may or may not be accurate), noise considerations and operational issues (changing ends with real-world traffic levels can be a rather complex and challenging exercise which has to be co-ordinated across the ATC system and results in significat disruption, hence real-world ATC will try and avoid doing so repeatedly and unnecessarily, whereas it is usually a non-event on VATSIM). For all of these reasons, whilst FR24 may well show what is happening in the real world, it may very well not be appropriate for VATSIM ops.

 

What did these people do before FR24 existed?

.

Edited December 15, 2016 at 01:43 AM by Guest

[Trent Hopkinson]

Ernesto is correct, No ATC = No ATC preferred runway.

 

However, aircraft tend to like headwinds on landing (it reduces your landing roll and groundspeed on touchdown - less wear on tyres and brakes).

 

There is no 180 degree flip required for runway vs wind.

Wind direction is "From" runway direction is "Facing" (to)

 

Runway 12 heads 120.

Wind from the direction of 120 is a headwind on runway 12

 

Runway 30 would have a tail wind in that case. Land with a headwind.

 

 

Runway 12 with wind from 210 is a complete 90 degree crosswind. No winners there.

[Alexander Mayrhofer 124852]

If there is no ATC it is of course no problem that a pilot wants to train tail wind landings, but I think he should not get in the way of other pilots who want to land with head winds. -> That is especially important for bigger airports with more traffic. So if I want to do unusual maneuvering I should not choose the busiest slot and not the busiest airport. That would kind of undermine the "as real as it gets" target.

[Clarke Kruger]

I have a subscription and use it quite a lot, it's just another tool in my [Mod - Happy Thoughts]nal, especially on those approaches you're not quite sure on.

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

That would kind of undermine the "as real as it gets" target.

 

thats the microsoft slogan, while vatsim tries to mimic real world, there are many many many exceptions made. even the real world does things that some users might find unimaginable. real world is much more flexible then some make it out to be.

 

but also realize as per the OP, what you suggested is exactly what happened, only 1 other aircraft anywhere around the field, it wasnt being done during an event

[Andreas Fuchs]

The main point is that one may use FR24, but does't have to. Same goes for AIPs definig a preferred runway: you may apply it, but nobody can tell you off for not doing it. Maybe except in Lukla, Nepal

[Trent Hopkinson]

The main point is that one may use FR24, but does't have to. Same goes for AIPs definig a preferred runway: you may apply it, but nobody can tell you off for not doing it. Maybe except in Lukla, Nepal

 

Gravity is the only thing that will punish you in Lukla :p

Gravity, and Gravity's friend "Cliff face"