Logging out when you don't want to accept / don't understand

[Caspian Merlin 1165098]

This just happened with me controlling on GND:

 

I logged on, and saw an aircraft that had just completed pushback.

 

Me: Please contact me on 121.9

AFL10XX: Ground, requesting IFR clearance to Blah Airport.

Me: AFL10XX, you need an even flight level for your direction of flight. Are you able to accept FL340?

AFL10XX: Roger, we'll accept FL340.

Me: Thank you. AFL10XX, cleared to Blah Airport via the XIBRI5A departure, TIBER7A transition. Initial climb 4000ft, Squawk 5274.

AFL10XX: Uhh... [disconnects].

 

30 seconds later AFL10XX appears on the runway, at the wrong end, no longer tuned on the frequency.

Me (via PM): Hello?

AFL: Sorry, we had connection problems. (Still couldn't taxi that distance in 30 seconds though...)

Me: Ah right... well, monitor Unicom 122.8. In the future, please don't spawn in on a runway, and be advised you're on the opposite runway I would have had you go to, which we never use, so the SID I gave you won't work. Have a good flight.

 

 

Seriously, why fly on an ATC network if you're just going to disconnect and then reconnect outside of controlled airspace and do what you want anyway, ignoring instructions? If you can't understand something just ask for it in text, or ask me to repeat!

[Kieran Samuel Cross]

tl;dr Your average pilot who d/c for controlled airspace and back for uncontrolled.

[Kyle Ramsey 810181]

You guys are scary.

 

That's the #1 comment I hear, people are terrified of talking to controllers and terrified of making mistakes.

[Kieran Samuel Cross]

You guys are scary.

 

That's the #1 comment I hear, people are terrified of talking to controllers and terrified of making mistakes.

 

 

I'm more likely to use text if you were controlling tho, you're the scary one here

[Sean Harrison]

Caspian,

 

As a pilot who has had this happen too, so many times, I offer an opinion. If I have setup, programmed the FMC, aligned with my allocated time slot, push back and while taxing a controller logs on. Being told to comply with changes only causes delays, effort, and nuisance.

 

As a controller, I always use the philosophy that the pilots are more than capable of handling things without me. If there are pilots on the ground connected before I start, I always ask them if they have planned a departure yet. If they have I will always do my best to accomodate that.

 

ATC: FGJ, have you planned a departure, or happy to accept one?

 

FGJ: Set for a LAV8 off rwy 01 if possible.

 

ATC: give them that unless it adversely effects other pilots (rarely)

 

My role as a CTR is to facilitate a safe and enjoyable experience. Sometimes as a CTR we can loose the reason for being online, and be to zealous.

 

This isn't a judgement on you, I have never interacted with you before. This is an opinion on a situation.

[Caspian Merlin 1165098]

I usually leave them to it if they have almost finished taxiing, provided no controller above me is on.

 

In this case, he had filed an invalid flight level - quite a common mistake in Italy because we split north / south, whereas most of Europe splits east / west, so I was loath to have him continue without rectifying this.

 

As it was, he was one of only two aircraft on the ground, so as far as I was concerned it wasn't an issue to have him sit on the taxiway for as long as he needed to program the SID into the FMC.

 

Had he requested runway 07, I would just have [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned him the correct SID for that runway. I'm quite happy to give people progressive taxi, spell SIDs / transitions out for people, explain how to program it into the FMC etc. At any rate, he could have accepted my clearance and then chosen to vector himself anyway as he would have been on unicom.

 

It's just annoying to have people disconnect and do what they want anyway, when surely the reason they are flying on VATSIM is for added realism. I'll give anyone any runway they want anyway, it's not my call to make as Ground!

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

i concur with Kyle. some users are scary lol

 

although I, and anyone else who has been here long enough will tell ya, if something as simple as this gets under your skin. you have no hope as you move up in the ranks. might as well start ordering your supply of meds now, youll need'em to calm down later

[Ryan Geckler]

i concur with Kyle. some users are scary lol

 

although I, and anyone else who has been here long enough will tell ya, if something as simple as this gets under your skin. you have no hope as you move up in the ranks. might as well start ordering your supply of meds now, youll need'em to calm down later

 

Wow. Keep driving away controllers, will ya?

[Johnny Coughlan]

i concur with Kyle. some users are scary lol

 

although I, and anyone else who has been here long enough will tell ya, if something as simple as this gets under your skin. you have no hope as you move up in the ranks. might as well start ordering your supply of meds now, youll need'em to calm down later

 

Wow. Keep driving away controllers, will ya?

 

I know Ryan right, such a constructive response...

 

Being told to just accept it and take medication to deal with it if acceptance is not forthcoming.

 

Pilots logging off because they're entering controlled airspace or they see a controller has logged on and then logging back in uncontrolled airspace is a common occurrence in my area of control(and no it's not me being scary).

 

I know of controllers who have left because of these antics and some current ones who are getting annoyed at present because of it. The usual comment I hear is.."oh he's disconnected, why even log on if you don't want ATC?".

 

That being the million dollar question...why log on if you don't want to interact with ATC?.

 

This is not simple a stated and does actually bother controllers I know when pilots do this. This is a kin to logging into a FPS game and logging off as soon as you see an enemy, why even log on in the first place?.

 

Anyways I'm off to pick up my medication as suggested...

[Don Desfosse]

Can you grab mine while you're there?

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

guys you do it to yourselves if this is enough to drive someone away. thats a personal issue nobody on this network is qualified to handle.

 

in simple terms, stop getting worked up over something as little as this. someone logging off? noooooo... not on an online network, that cant happen. come on folks dont let our egos get the best of us

 

i see pilots and controllers logging off all the time. has never bothered me. heck there was a controller that logged on the other day when i was flying out of PDX, he was on for a grand 5 or 10 minutes before i got the chance to call. did it bother me when he left? no, simply moved on and enjoyed the flight

Edited December 19, 2016 at 04:27 PM by Guest

[Kyle Ramsey 810181]

When I say scary I mean mostly the expectation, not so much the actual experience. I do think some have run into a controller who may not have treated them well but that is most likely the minority of events. Mostly they hear one story, might not even be true, and that feeds the model that VATSIM is scary.

 

As a rw CFI I can tell you rw students get mic fright too and it was always a part of the training to drag them into C and B airspace during training to get them over it. But I know rw pilots who avoid C and B's like the plague because they don't like talking to ATC.

 

I wouldn't take it personally, but I would suggest making sure every time we get a chance to talk to one try not to do anything that feeds the model that talking to ATC is a scary thing to be avoided and try to talk them into the experience.

 

EDIT: more resources may also help and maybe the PTD can help put together some material. I stole this off another site, might be useful:

 

[Joseph Jucha 1343412]

Don't sweat it Caspian.

It happens to all of us, there are certain old timers that just 'forgot' what it was like. While you are working that postion it is your opportunity to develop 'tolerance' levels and learn what is bare-bones needed. Personally, if I pop on to TWR and there is a guy pushing back, I'm going to do a quik scan of his flight strip. Given no huge mistakes I'll just taxi him/her and launch them. All this [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umes there is no one above me, because hey, THEY should have caught it. What I read in your post was just fine. I have felt just like that...even recently.

I think the most frustrating this I dealt with on ground was waiting for 10s of mins, if not hours, for someone to arrive and then they disco the second they landed.

 

tl;dr Don't sweat it, this is your chance to develop the customer skills we ALL need and how to make this a postive experience.

 

Oh, and for what it's worth MY pet peeve is no/incorrect navigational equipment type. I spend a great deal of time expaining it purpose in the simulated world and choosing the correct one.

[Kirk Christie]

Im unsure of what effect it has on you if a pilot decides to logg off entering your airspace.

 

My question to you is, do you really want that type of pilot in your airspace?

[Matthew Bartels]

Im unsure of what effect it has on you if a pilot decides to logg off entering your airspace.

 

My question to you is, do you really want that type of pilot in your airspace?

 

The effect it has on us is that now we're looking at an empty scope vs working traffic.

 

The point a lot of people seem to forget is that we controllers go through all the training to provide air traffic service to these pilots. The common [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umption is that we're here to serve the pilots. Almost everything officially is pilot centric which leads to this line of thought.

 

The issue is that the controller wants to control and gets enjoyment from actually working airplanes. During a quiet session on a less popular center, that pilot who logged off may be one of only a few pilots you may see. So yes, the controller is going to be annoyed that he didn't get to do what he signed on to do. Couple that with the amount of training they do to get there and it's easy to see why this upsets controllers.

 

Just as there is no network without the pilots, there is no network without the controller too. We are tied together for the mutual success of our network.

[Johnathan Ellis 1250874]

The way I look at this type of action from pilots is this.....

 

When I first joined the network, I joined as a pilot, and was fascinated by the realism involved. That being said... I was terrified for quite some time, and was afraid to make my attempt at conversing with ATC. During that time, I still loved to hear others, and learned from them. When I became a controller, and had a pilot disconnect, then reconnect...I would look at their CID, and get a sense of where they're coming from.

[Jonathan Johnson]

I think it's still a bit rude to do that.....

 

I don't know if it means much, but when I was first flying in the comments I always put "Beginner on Vatsim". I don't know how helpful that was to any of you, but I couldn't imagine dc'ing and reconnecting like that. I had tons of nerves/shaky hands (and pretty sure I messed up a lot... especially read backs), but I never intentionally disconnected/reconnected...