Non ATC assigned STAR

[Marcus Haraldsson 1359974]

Hello

 

Usually when I fly into an airport I put my last waypoint into the flightplan and then let ATC decide what STAR i should fly and they give me the STAR clearance, since different STARs usually lead to different runways.

But for example, in the UK, the same STAR can lead to the same runway. So, if you write the STAR you'll be flying already in your flightplan, do you still need a specific clearance upon arrival to fly it? And if so, what if you do not enter you're STAR, will they specificlly clear you on to a STAR then?

[Simon Kelsey]

Hi Marcus,

 

What you put in the ATC flightplan is dependent on the filing format for any particular country. In the UK and most of Europe, the rules say that you should not enter SID or STAR designators. In the USA and Germany (amongst others) terminal procedures are normally filed in the flight plan.

 

I would normally set up the FMC with the STAR I am expecting to fly based on my filed route and the active runway if applicable, and if I haven't had any further instructions then it would be sensible to continue flying along that route (laterally).

 

Remember at the gate when you get your IFR clearance?

 

"ABC 123, cleared to your destination XXXX..."

 

The important thing is the clearance limit, which in the UK is normally the last waypoint of the STAR. You must not proceed beyond this point without ATC clearance (and the charts are very explicit about this). However, up until that point if you genuinely don't hear from or cannot force an answer from the controller then effectively you are 'lost comms' -- so just follow the lost comms procedure, which essentially means follow your flight plan -- if you are in a country where the SID/STAR is filed in the flight plan then do whatever you have filed, if not then do whatever is the most logical (you should already have the landing runway from the ATIS, and it's very rare to have more than one procedure from the same starting point to the same landing runway -- where there are several variants one is normally there for planning purposes and the others are usually clearly marked "by ATC [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment only", so just follow the standard procedure.

[Marcus Haraldsson 1359974]

Thanks for the response.

 

So, in short. If you would have filed the STAR in the flightplan when flying into an Airport in the UK, will you under normal circomestances recieve an explicit STAR clearance from ATC still?

[Simon Kelsey]

You wouldn't, ever, file the STAR designator in the ATC flightplan when flying in to a UK airport -- the UK AIP specifically says not to. Just the last waypoint on your route (which ordinarily will be the first waypoint on the STAR) -- i.e. ....DENUT UL608 LOGAN (don't put LAM3A). However, there is only one way to get from LOGAN to LHR, and that is via the LAM3A, so that is what I would be putting in the box and flying in the absence of any other instructions -- that is what everybody else will be doing and what ATC would expect (rather than routing direct to LHR from LOGAN or anything else).

 

ATC will normally, however, confirm the STAR when you speak to them.

[Marcus Haraldsson 1359974]

All right, thanks, that was the answer I was looking for

 

Now, just to clarify, when you say that ATC will "confirm" the STAR, you mean that they don't acctually need to clear you on the STAR - becasue there is only one suitable STAR?

[Johan Grauers]

There is more than one (BIG1E anyone?). ATC in the UK will [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign it, although we will not do the swedish thing and say "cleared to Arlanda via eltok4M arrival for runway 19R", we will simply say something like "SAS123, LAM3A arrival (to Heathrow).

 

For real some airlines can tell London what Star they expect and if it is correct ATC do not have to issue it, I do this on vatsim from time to time as well and that seems to work ok.

[Marcus Haraldsson 1359974]

Ok thanks!

[Greg Barber]

Fly the flight plan for which you have been cleared. Only make it up when there is no ATC to guide you.

 

Example 1:

Filed YMML-YSSY via DOSEL Y59 TESAT

Until such time as you are cleared for ([Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned) a STAR, you fly TESAT and then enter the circuit for the most into wind runway at YSSY. Now for course that's never going to happen at YSSY so in the absence of ATC you pick what's most appropriate. If ATC is present and has not [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned you a STAR by say 50nm from to of descent.....ask for one!

 

"Centre, XYZ123 approaching top of descent, request STAR clearance if available."

"XYZ123, sorry about that, you're cleared the RIVET2 arrival runway 16R, when ready descend to FL210."

 

Example 2:

Filed KLAX-KSFO via VTU7 RZS SERFR SERFR2

You fly the SID/STAR in your flight plan until such time as you are cleared otherwise. If you haven't been given descent when you want it to make the altitude requirements....ask for one!

 

"Centre, XYZ123 request descent."

"XYZ123, apologies, descend at pilot discretion to cross XXXXX at 15,000ft, altimeter 29.90."

[1275389]

Filed KLAX-KSFO via VTU7 RZS SERFR SERFR2

"XYZ123, apologies, descend at pilot discretion to cross XXXXX at 15,000ft, altimeter 29.90."

Or a "descend via the SERFR2 arrival, altimeter 29.90" in this case.

[Greg Barber]

Or a "descend via the SERFR2 arrival, altimeter 29.90" in this case.

 

Indeed. Seeing this again however intrigues me to ask a question that's been bugging me for a while. If this descent clearance is given, where does it end? 4,000ft at MENLO? Obviously there is usually further instructions given prior to that, but in the absence of that would I be correct that this phraseology represents a descent clearance all the way down to 4,000ft?

[Bradley Grafelman]

this phraseology represents a descent clearance all the way down to 4,000ft?

... and a final speed of 230 KIAS (since "descend via" includes both altitude restrictions and speed restrictions), yep.