Descending during a STAR

[Marcus Haraldsson 1359974]

Hi,

 

As far as I'm aware, in the UK you should always fly the STAR altitude restriction unless you've been given a "descend now", and if you just get a "descend" you need to comply with the altitude. However, my questions is, how does it work in the rest of Europe?

For example, if there's a alt restriction on my STAR at FL80 at or above, but ATC has given me "when ready descend 5000ft", do i need to comply with the restriction because he said "when ready"? And what if he just says "descend 5000ft" can i then descend directly to 5000ft and don't care about the restriction?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Adam Trzcinski]

You need to maintain and respect all restrictions unless specifically cancelled by ATC.

 

"DLH123, descend via EXAMP1L arrival FL70, cancel level restrictions at ABCDE".

 

[Wygene Chong 1089621]

To add to that, altitude restrictions for final approaches also apply. So if ATC says "descend to altitude 2500ft" when you are flying a transition ILS arrival via an initial approach fix (IAF), then you should follow the altitudes on the chart for that transition as well.

 

Finally, if ATC starts vectoring you separately to the STAR, then obviously you will no longer be 'descending during a STAR/procedure', so you can descend right away

[Andreas Fuchs]

In the UK lots of "step climb profiles" are being used for SID, instrument departure routes. Yes, there you NEED TO adhere to those vertical steps, unless ATC tells you to "climb NOW". STARs, however, do NOT have the same option: you may only descend when cleared to do so by ATC. As Adam explained there is new phraseology telling you to "Descend via" a STAR: follow both the lateral and vertical track/profile of the procedure given by ATC.

[Mathew Sutcliffe]

In the UK there is no such thing as a STAR altitude restriction, and an instruction to climb always cancels a SID altitude restriction. "Climb" and "climb now" mean the same thing. "Descend now" is not used.

[Chris Dobison 810929]

When referring to a SID, it is most definitely "Climb now" in the UK otherwise climb restrictions apply. In the not too distant future, the UK will catch up to the rest of Europe and will use "Climb unrestricted".

 

Similarly, as already stated - descent on a STAR is:

 

“DESCEND TO (level) LEVEL RESTRICTION(S) (STAR designator) CANCELLED”

or

“DESCEND TO (level) LEVEL RESTRICTION(S) (STAR designator) AT (point) CANCELLED”.

 

This follows ICAO Doc 4444 and is referenced in the UK CAA FODCOM 09/2010 here.

 

Notes regarding new phraseology are contained here.

 

As ever though, if you have any queries with a clearance given - ask. Controllers will be glad you ask the question rather than just do what you think is right.

 

Chris

[Andreas Fuchs]

That is not correct, Mathew. Only the term "NOW" cancels the climb restrictions on an SID. I do fly in and out of the London TMA almost every week, we will never ever climb outside the published profile unless ATC states "NOW".

 

For STARs, especially in the UK you will receive instructions to follow a certain STAR. In the real world we regularly get vectored on these STARs and then are told to descend to a certain level and be level abeam one of the points of the STAR.

[Johan Grauers]

That is not correct, Mathew. Only the term "NOW" cancels the climb restrictions on an SID. I do fly in and out of the London TMA almost every week, we will never ever climb outside the published profile unless ATC states "NOW".

 

For STARs, especially in the UK you will receive instructions to follow a certain STAR. In the real world we regularly get vectored on these STARs and then are told to descend to a certain level and be level abeam one of the points of the STAR.

 

Matthew is right, in the UK any new climb or descent instructions cancel all previous level restrictions unless reiterated. Reference being CAP493 sec 1 chap 4 para 7.

 

Similar care must be exercised when a controller issues a clearance, which amends the

vertical profile of an aircraft on an SID. For example, “climb FL120” automatically cancels

the vertic

al profile of the SID. If the profile contains a restriction that provides vertical

separation from conflicting traffic on another SID, the restriction must be reiterated,

 

However, this comes with caveats.

 

To begin with, this is contrary to ICAO procedure, which was linked by Adam earlier. The UK has a filed excpetion from this procedure in the AIP.

 

However, because this is a difference from ICAO the UK has filed yet another difference to reduce the amount of confusion that can occur in the climb out phase. This was the introduction of the "climb now" phraseology.

Legally this is no difference between "climb" and "climb now". However "climb now" is used to emphasise that the restrictions are cancelled. There used to be an AIC about this but I can't find it in the active list anymore. I did find the old CAP493 supplementarty instruction though which says roughly the same thing:

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP493SupplementaryInstruction201004.pdf

 

 

So, legally, there is no difference. However controllers must use the phrase "climb now" to emphasise this difference from ICAO procedures.

 

This only applies to SIDs because on UK STARs descent clearance is "as directed by ATC". This is also why we have to state every level restriction, ie "descend FL250, level by LOGAN". The Chart says "FL250 by LOGAN" but it is an "expected" level. Unless we say specifically it applies, it does not.

 

The one to watch out for as a pilot (now this is rare on vatsim but I'm sure the RW pilots like Andreas will have heard it) is

"BAW123, expect FL150 by SABRE, descend FL180".

This can then be followed by a stepped descent, the restriction should be reiterated with the last descent though. Ie.

"BAW123 descend FL160" (no reiteration)

"BAW123, descend FL150, level by SABRE" or maybe "BAW123, descend FL130, cross SABRE FL150 or below".

 

 

 

Finally, the UK will probably change to ICAO standards. Exactly how this will be completed I don't know, but that seems to be the plan.

 

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-77309C46722CC868DE966AC6F7AEBB3E/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/AIC/Y/083-2016/EG_Circ_2016_Y_083_en_2016-12-15.pdf

 

If that link breaks (I can never learn how to link to the UK AIP) then you want the UK AIS, then Aeronautical Information Circulars, Yellow group, and then circular Y083/2016 wich at time of writing is at the top.

[Andreas Fuchs]

Thanks for the information, I did not know that and have been told officially that ATC has to use "NOW" to cancel any SID level restriction. Thinking about it, it makes sense, because it is less ambiguous.