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A Strong Case for a Mandatory P1 for Pilots


Tom David
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Fahad Usmani 1191523 wrote:

The controller was kind enough to explain politely that he could not let me fly and referred me to the knowledge centre.

(emphasis mine)

 

This upsets me! Controllers don't have...or at least shouldn't have...that option. Hopefully this was an embellishment of the event by Fahad, but if not...

 

I understand your point Randy, but from what I saw, the controller handled it perfectly. I didnt have sufficient knowledge to be able to fly comfortably on the network. The controller simply referred me to the knowledge center so that I have the capability to fly properly. And the best part, the controller was quite calm and handled the thing maturely.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that we don't need mandatory P1, rather, we need understanding and capable controllers and supervisors who can handle new pilots.

 

Fahad Usmani 1191523 wrote:

even though the controller told me to stay cautious beforehand. He was pissed.

(again, emphasis mine)

 

Why? I know that is the controllers' main reasoning, I think, behind a push for a mandatory P1. Trained means fewer mistakes and more fun. But how far do we take it? The concept of DPs/STARs is not even taught until the P4.

 

Again, this was entirely my fault. The controller had a long discussion with me on the ground about LAM VOR. He asked me if I was familiar with the departure. I was so I told him I'd fly without screwing it up. But somehow I did screw it up. I'd blame only myself for this.

 

My recommendation is to implement some kind of a buddy system. Every VATSIM newbie would be [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned to a VATSIM pilot who would guide him through the initial hoops.

Best Regards

 

Fahad Usmani

Director Events & Public Relations - VATSIM Pakistan

http://www.vatpak.net | events_pr(at)vatpak(dot)net

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I want a quick and easy test that makes sure the pilot grasps the fact that if he/she doesn't know what a comp[Mod - Happy Thoughts] or an altimeter does, {...}

Agree. A baseline of basic knowledge is essential for any hope that a new member can use the network cooperatively with ATC and other pilots.

 

I completely agree with this. Nowadays, I'm seeing pilots who have no idea what transponders, headings, radio frequencies, altitudes, etc. are at all, which completely disrupts traffic flow and disrupts enjoyment to other users significantly (think a 747 taxiing through buildings, taking off without clearance in front of a large queue of pilots on approach and waiting for takeoff and turning and changing altitude VERY erratically in busy airspace).

 

I don't care if you can fly a fancy RNAV SID or STAR with your shiny new Navigraph LIDO charts and PMDG 747 v3 or if you're just in the default Cessna 172 or Learjet 45 with only the default GPS to help you navigate - what matters is if you understand the basic principles of flying on VATSIM so both you and existing members can adequately enjoy the network.

 

Totally agree with your 2nd paragraph. It's getting the basics down. A lot of Pilots fail at that.

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I fly and contol on the network and I am on the side of pilots should at least go through the vatsim academy and get their P1 so they at least have an understanding of basic requirements to fly on the network and where to get help if they need it. I know I have encountered many new pilots on the network who have no idea these resources exist. Controllers will always help out new pilots if they don't understand something or have questions, but I believe that we should put more responsibility on the pilot.

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The point I'm trying to make is that we don't need mandatory P1, rather, we need understanding and capable controllers and supervisors who can handle new pilots..

We already have that. But if it's my job to get people up to speed, and not their own, I want the I3 rating and a base salary of at least $35/hour. Now, please.

 

I love to help those who are able to utilize the help given, but it does get boring to do the whole "Hello, welcome to VATSIM. First, don't fly upside down through others. Second, the round instrumenty thingy with numbers and the word "altimeter" shows how high you are, you should probably learn how to use that. Third, in aviation we use what's called a comp[Mod - Happy Thoughts] as basis for navigation. It consist of 360.........".

 

VATSIM is a network where we learn and teach each other how online flying with ATC and other traffic works, not how aircraft fundamentals works.

 

the responsibility has always been on pilots. like the old saying goes, ignorance excuses no one. the information is available, even included in the welcome emails that include their account info, so if they are logging in, theyve seen where it is
"it has always been this way" is a lousy excuse in my mind. Sometimes things need to change, and what already has changed is the average knowledge state of fresh pilots (rapid decline). Now, an adaptation is required to combat that. Globally the practice of stopping, taking a moment and actually do a little research before jumping head-first in is rapidly diminishing (I'm not gonna talk politics, but I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume most get the point). Let's give people a kick in the buttocks along the right way instead of silently supporting that change, please.
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Magnus thats not what i said. I said the responsibility has always been the pilots, IE using the excuse of "I didnt know you werent allowed to do this" isnt going to be an acceptable excuse when everyone is required for example to read and agree to following the code of conduct, and even reminded of that at the time of logging in each and every time.

 

in the same manner, its the pilots responsibility to make sure they are prepared for their flight.

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the responsibility has always been on pilots. like the old saying goes, ignorance excuses no one. the information is available, even included in the welcome emails that include their account info, so if they are logging in, theyve seen where it is

 

If people were reading and comprehending the whole email then I don't think we would be having this discussion about whether or not pilots need a rating to fly. The P1 would make sure they know where to find information since they would have to answer questions based on information found in the PRC, COC and COR. It could be another case of leading a horse to water but you can't make him drink but at least we know that they have viewed the material.

 

I also think that people who come on the network to learn would be more likely to research concepts and procedures that are presented to them on their own that would help them be better pilots. Magnus said it best about how VATSIM is a learning environment where both controllers and pilots want to expand their knowledge about aviation.

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no, actually the p1 would only make sure theyve taken a test, not that theyve retained any bit of info in it or that as often happens, they didnt cheat on it. like you said, can lead them or even tie them up next to the river, but making them drink, its on them.

 

i still see P rated pilots flying around and often dont even know how to select a runway on their own other then trying to use flightradar or flightaware to tell them what runway to choose. a little thing called a METAR is often missed or not read at all. the over reliance of automation is one of the bigger issues on the network (many of the so called experts cant fly worth a darn once they turn that off lol)

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no, actually the p1 would only make sure theyve taken a test, not that theyve retained any bit of info in it or that as often happens, they didnt cheat on it. like you said, can lead them or even tie them up next to the river, but making them drink, its on them.

 

The bottom line is it doesn't matter whether or not the person "cheated". You really expect someone to memorize all 8 pages of the COC, 116 pages of the COR and all the different pages covered in the PRC just to take the test? That is outrageous if you ask me. The test should be open book and open note because they will have gone to look up the information and taken some initiative on their own.

 

This would not fix all pilot incompetencies by any means. It would help with how to interact with controllers while in actively controlled airspace.

 

i still see P rated pilots flying around and often dont even know how to select a runway on their own other then trying to use flightradar or flightaware to tell them what runway to choose. a little thing called a METAR is often missed or not read at all. the over reliance of automation is one of the bigger issues on the network (many of the so called experts cant fly worth a darn once they turn that off lol)

 

Well at least these pilots know where they can go to find active runways in use in real world if there is no controller! I know that metars are covered in the P1 material in one video but in the exam I took for the P1, the questions were more focused on policies of the network and how to talk to ATC. This is what is important in my opinion.

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no, actually the p1 would only make sure theyve taken a test, not that theyve retained any bit of info in it or that as often happens, they didnt cheat on it. like you said, can lead them or even tie them up next to the river, but making them drink, its on them.

 

i still see P rated pilots flying around and often dont even know how to select a runway on their own other then trying to use flightradar or flightaware to tell them what runway to choose. a little thing called a METAR is often missed or not read at all. the over reliance of automation is one of the bigger issues on the network (many of the so called experts cant fly worth a darn once they turn that off lol)

 

The same would apply to any form of regulation or law. To get a driver's license, you need to learn the rules of the road; yet, there are many drivers out there that speed and break traffic laws on a daily basis. Does that mean driver's licenses are useless and shouldn't be needed?

 

I understand that P1 tests can be cheated due to the lack of controlled testing conditions. However, there is such a thing as moral integrity. The amount of people who do cheat is a minority. Plus, even if they DO cheat, through the process of cheating they will be exposed to the material, which is better than no exposure at all.

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you've used that line already pages ago

 

as far as moral integrity, welcome to the new world where users have no moral issues downloading pirated/stolen works and basically acting like the world revolves around them. integrity seems to be going the way of the Dinosaur.

 

but again, a test is not going to solve the issues people are having, itll just continue, as you said, drivers still suck even after being licensed lol

 

off topic, as far as the validity of a drivers license, without getting political, only reason those are in place is the agencies rake in millions/billions on them. hard to let that type of cash cow go. some countries, and even some towns within some countries dont even require one within their boundaries.

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you've used that line already pages ago

 

as far as moral integrity, welcome to the new world where users have no moral issues downloading pirated/stolen works and basically acting like the world revolves around them. integrity seems to be going the way of the Dinosaur.

 

but again, a test is not going to solve the issues people are having, itll just continue, as you said, drivers still suck even after being licensed lol

 

off topic, as far as the validity of a drivers license, without getting political, only reason those are in place is the agencies rake in millions/billions on them. hard to let that type of cash cow go. some countries, and even some towns within some countries dont even require one within their boundaries.

 

I know. Same argument applies, so I brought it up again.

 

People pickpocket, thieve and steal in real life - that doesn't mean moral integrity is going down the drain, it only means that there will always be some unsavory individuals. Neither does it mean that said individuals are in any way a majority.

 

No, I'm saying that I know it won't fix the problem. And I believe I speak for all of this idea's proponents when I say we all know that.

 

No one is saying it'll be an end-all perfect solution to the problem. Just like how driver's licenses don't resolve the issue of idiots on the road. Sure, people might cheat the test and not take the time to learn properly. But for every person who cheats and doesn't learn, I guarantee 10 will genuinely want to learn hwo to fly. The target of such an entry test is to give [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance to those who want to learn but don't know how by explicitly pointing them in the direction of information.

 

Again, to be clear, I'm not talking about throwing an entry test in front of new recruits and forcing them to finish it in 5 minutes or be banned from VATSIM forever. I'm talking about a system where new members are sent an email after registering saying that to gain access to log on to fly (observing would remain 100% unrestricted), they would have to take a short 20 question quiz as well as giving links to the PRC and other docomeentation to learn. No time restriction on the quiz, no deadline for taking it.

 

And in regards to driver's licenses - the reason some small towns don't need them is because they're too small for traffic rules to really apply - as in, no one cares if you drive 100mph on a dirt road with no other cars in sight, as it's your own life you're risking. A car is easy to drive - steer with the wheel, pedals to accelerate and brake, and a forward/reverse clutch (on automatics). However, in busy areas, you need to follow specific traffic rules and know things such as parallel parking and right of way so as not to disrupt traffic flow and endanger lives. Same goes for the argument for a mandatory P1-esque quiz - in busy ATC environments, pilots need to know basic standard procedure in order to maintain a smooth flow of traffic and to allow all users to enjoy the network to its fullest. Obviously, lives aren't at stake, but the point still stands to allow all of us to enjoy the network.

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i still see P rated pilots flying around and often dont even know how to select a runway on their own other then trying to use flightradar or flightaware to tell them what runway to choose.

On the flip side, there are many people that have benefited from the ratings, but you don't notice them, exactly because they're NOT causing problems.

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To me, this discussion boils down to one simple thing. We continually hear the Board of Governors and other VATSIM officials refer to this network as a "learning environment." Yet, it seems to me that there is no accountability for the pilots' learning process. Members can log on and start flying whether they know procedures top-to-bottom, or are in their simulated airplane for the first time.

 

Making the P1 or some form of entry quiz mandatory would by no means solve all the problems with the level of ignorance that we sometimes see. But, it would set the tone from the very beginning that members are expected to expand their knowledge of aviation in order to maximize their enjoyment and the enjoyment of everyone else around them, and it would dissuade a few of those who might otherwise think this is just a glorified FSX multiplayer server where they can come in and do barrel rolls in a 744 and nobody will care.

 

Then, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, we do need to back up that sentiment -- by strengthening the network of online supervisors, so that those who continue to display patterns of *willful* ignorance are educated and then ultimately removed.

Cheers,

-R.

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To get a driver's license, you need to learn the rules of the road; yet, there are many drivers out there that speed and break traffic laws on a daily basis. Does that mean driver's licenses are useless and shouldn't be needed?

 

Go to a DMV office. You'll notice that they care a great deal about proof of identity, residence and citizenship and want specific docomeentation for each. At least in my state, they cannot use the same information I provided to them at my previous renewal.

 

Oddly enough, they don't seem interested in whether I still know the rules of the road. That might provide a clue regarding the true purpose of licensure.

 

The challenge with examinations is that once you put together the entire list of all the things that ATC complains about, you are far beyond the P1.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

... I spawn hundreds of children a day. They are daemons because they are easier to kill. The first four remain stubbornly alive despite my (and their) best efforts.

... Normal in my household makes you a member of a visible minority.

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The challenge with examinations is that once you put together the entire list of all the things that ATC complains about, you are far beyond the P1.

Again, we're not fixing "all the things ATC complains about." That's not the purpose of the exam - at least not the exam I'm shooting for. The purpose, as it's been said maybe 20+ times, it to test that pilots actually have glanced at the COC. I refer you to Rob and Jon's posts above.

EDIT: and look at Joe's post below.

Edited by Guest

Josh Glottmann
Deputy Air Traffic Manager
Oakland ARTCC
[email protected]

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To get a driver's license, you need to learn the rules of the road; yet, there are many drivers out there that speed and break traffic laws on a daily basis. Does that mean driver's licenses are useless and shouldn't be needed?

 

Go to a DMV office. You'll notice that they care a great deal about proof of identity, residence and citizenship and want specific docomeentation for each. At least in my state, they cannot use the same information I provided to them at my previous renewal.

 

Oddly enough, they don't seem interested in whether I still know the rules of the road. That might provide a clue regarding the true purpose of licensure.

 

The challenge with examinations is that once you put together the entire list of all the things that ATC complains about, you are far beyond the P1.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

They don't care because you have already established that you know the rules when you first got your license.

 

As ATC we know that pilots aren't going to be perfect and we are not asking that they know everything. The list I would say they want is:

 

1. Knowing if when and where they log on if there is ATC online covering that airport

 

2. Knowing who to contact if ATC is online (DEL, GND, TWR etc.) or monitoring Unicom if there is no ATC

 

3. Be able to file a flightplan with at least an aircraft type and a route that has at least one waypoint every 250nm. This does not have to include a SID or a STAR if they do not know how to.

 

4. Being able to understand and perform basic instructions from ATC. (Departure clearance, taxi instructions, altitude or turn instructions etc).

 

5. Knowing where they can find information if they are uncertain about something.

 

I think these things could very easily be covered and have an exam to prove that they have at least viewed the material in some capacity.

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This drivers license analogy is weird to me, but that's probably because where I'm from you need to pay up at least $2000-3000 as a bare minimum for your license, and that's just the mandatory courses which adds up to something like 10 to 20 instruction hours. Then again, our road deaths per capita is about a third of the US, where I understand the requirements are far lower.

 

On topic: I don't understand the pesimism. This is not about forcing pilots to cram in knowledge that they should immideately remember, this is not school. It's about forcing them to referencing it, and at least read through a few paragraphs of basic stuff once. VATSIM is such a place where you can keep a lot of the know-how bookmarked as you go, memorizing tiny parts of it each time you go online. If they spend 5 minutes to understand the basic principles of the network, and add a bookmark of the knowledge base vatsim.net offers (and maybe more, it's a crazy world after all), they're all set in my opinion. But, a life full of hitting the "yeah, I read that stuff you listed"-tick box without even looking at the first line each and every time you install software or register an user account anywhere will leave you blind to the stuff presented when registering on VATSIM.

 

As an vATC, it took me years to even start digging into stuff like the Norwegian CAA and ICAO's vast library of regulations, RNAV principles, proper FP formatting and approving, etc, but I was able to reference the few parts vital to creating a realistic environment on VATSIM from very early on, which didn't require much of my time or energy at all (relatively speaking). This is what that very basic test will teach: "Here's the basic gist, get a feel for what that entails, then do the detailing as appropriate when you can/want. Have fun learning and flying!". Bold coloured fonts telling you that you should really read something because that's the proper way to do it just won't cut it in our plug-and-play society.

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They don't care because you have already established that you know the rules when you first got your license.

 

That's interesting. I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume if I was a commercial pilot once I got a type rating I wouldn't need to undergo any sort of recurrent testing because I had already established that I understood how to fly the aircraft when I got my initial rating.

 

Wait, that's not how it works?

 

I got my VATSIM membership in 2003. There are members who weren't alive when that happened. I haven't flown online since 2013 or so, so when I come back this year I'm going to be very close to a new pilot. The P1 I got back in 2012 adequate reflects the basic skills of "don't connect on a runway" and "don't do rolls at 500kts and 300ft", but not a lot more. If you expect more you're braver than I thought.

 

3. Be able to file a flightplan with at least an aircraft type and a route that has at least one waypoint every 250nm. This does not have to include a SID or a STAR if they do not know how to.

 

And yet in this thread we have controllers denying flight to people who don't file a SID.

 

Being able to understand and perform basic instructions from ATC. (Departure clearance, taxi instructions, altitude or turn instructions etc).

 

You're confusing theoretical with practical. I know that I need to do it; whether I still can is another question.

 

I think a P1 is a good idea for pilots to achieve and that's why I've helped over 600 pilots get it. I just don't think it provides what you think it does, and a mandatory exam won't do much.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

... I spawn hundreds of children a day. They are daemons because they are easier to kill. The first four remain stubbornly alive despite my (and their) best efforts.

... Normal in my household makes you a member of a visible minority.

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Everyone has their idea but simply providing a test isn't training. Everyone clambering here for change really means mandatory training. A simple entry exam or even the P1 will not fix most of the complaints people have about other pilots, new or not, on this network. I had posted before and didn't see any replys but how about a simple exercise.

 

List the problems you see with pilots on the network and then list what on the P1 specifically fixes that. I got my P1 a long time ago so don't remember whats on the exam. If not the P1 as the title of the thread then how in depth would you require it to be without actual giving training to the pilots? We have the PRC already so would that be the extent of the training? Making them read that? I am not trolling. I am trying to understand the idea of how this would work. I can't see it happening but I am very open to how it could. Who wouldn't want a better experience?

 

 

I am in mid flight now. Departed JFK with excellent ATC but with a pilot that was ahead of me is brand new to the network. Every heading he was given he read it back wrong and in some cases turned wrong. How would this training change that for instance as well?

854300

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The problem I see is pilots not realizing that VATISM is a tad more than a multiplayer. It's also that they have no clue what the uttermost basic convensions are on this network, and that they have no clue where to find help because they haven't yet realized how much they need it. "New" is perfectly fine by me. "Learning" is friggin awesome! "Oblivious" is annoying and easily avoided on the registration level, if implemented.

 

A light P1-ish 5 or 10 minute test (multiple choice, time to find the answers from provided and easily read sources included) cannot fail to help this issue m[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ively, how could it? Provide a tiny handfull of questions from the two pages linked below, that HAS to be answered, and we're golden.

 

This is not about making people pro or train them. It's about not having to spend time explaining what the heck VATSIM is to the oblivious group, reducing unecessary newbie wallops, and overall create a clear understanding for new members of what we're all about.

 

https://www.vatsim.net/pilot-resource-centre/vatsim-basics/expectations-and-requirements-pilots

https://www.vatsim.net/pilot-resource-centre/vatsim-basics/important-rules

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Where do I begin?

 

Ive been away from vatsim for a couple if years until last week.

 

Was a twr controller and have way too many hours logged as a pilot.

 

I stopped controlling a long time before I stopped flying. Why? Attitudes of the older members, quite happy to jump and shout about everything you are doing wrong, but have no advice on the correct way to do it.

I was more than happy to help out the new guy who wants to fly yssy to klax direct at 5000ft.

If he just wanted to do that and not learn the real world way, that is 100% fine, because this is a game, a game that some people take very seriously and that is the problem, not untrained pilots. The people jumping up and down in here are likely the same people who pm you online to tell you that x airline doesn't fly that route/aircraft in real life and that I'm ruining their life, then call a sup when they are told to shut up and mind their own business.

 

Compulsory p1 ratings....

 

Nah! I work 14 hour days, does anyone expect me to study for an exam for a game? While I spend time with my girlfriend/mates/other interests?

 

I enjoy a realistic environment, but I won't sit studying flight aware for current real world routes.

 

Because vatsim is a place for fun and learning.

Sure there are people who need a push in the right direction, I needed it, and a couple of controllers took time out of their day to help me out. On the other hand I have blatantly ignored salty controllers who insist that I can't fly where I want to (empty airspace) and I have also logged off to avoid certain controllers until I'm past their airspace.

 

Same with certain pilots, but none of the pilots or controllers were new to vatsim.

 

I should note that Pilot Edge has no requirements for pilot training that I remember, and those guys as a general rule are so much nicer to talk to than the general populace of vatsim members.

 

But I am back with a fresh view, but it is very unfortunate to see threads like this still around.

 

Why not have a quick video instead of an exam? As you're signing up have an embedded 2 min video outlining the basics for connecting to vatsim, not starting on a runway, and a quick interaction with a controller. No sids/stars [Mod - lovely stuff].

Just a basic clearance. Eg cessna abc, cleared to whatever by whatever and link to more advanced tutorial videos that can be watched later on.

Edited by Guest
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Compulsory p1 ratings....

 

Nah! I work 14 hour days, does anyone expect me to study for an exam for a game? While I spend time with my girlfriend/mates/other interests?

 

I enjoy a realistic environment, but I won't sit studying flight aware for current real world routes.

See, this is part of the problem. Everyone sees the word 'entry exam' and over-reacts, thinking we mean some sort of strict, rigorous standardized testing or practical tests.

 

None of us are suggesting an 'exam', nor are we suggesting you plonk yourself in front of your computer and study real-world routes and ICAO/FAA docs for hours on end. All we are suggesting is a simple 5 minute quiz covering the most BASIC of VATSIM information (e.g. 'Should you chat with other pilots on an ATC frequency?' or 'Should you spawn on a runway or taxiway?', all of which are Yes/No questions) to unlock log-on capability to the network. If you've skimmed over the Pilot Resource Center, which only takes 5 minutes at most, you'll know how to answer the questions.

...On the other hand I have blatantly ignored salty controllers who insist that I can't fly where I want to (empty airspace) and I have also logged off to avoid certain controllers until I'm past their airspace.

Controllers aren't permitted to prevent you from flying anywhere, only to give suggestions. If you encounter such a controller, they are in the wrong - please record their ID and what they did and send all info to a supervisor.

I should note that Pilot Edge has no requirements for pilot training that I remember, and those guys as a general rule are so much nicer to talk to than the general populace of vatsim members.

In my opinion, that's because it's a paid service - when you're paying to receive such a service, you'd be more inclined to learn about what you're doing. VATSIM is free - there's less restrictions for people coming straight from, say, FSX-SE's inbuilt Steam multiplayer to join. Don't get me wrong, that's a good thing - it means we get more members to fly and have fun with. However, it also means that some of these members may not know what they need to yet, meaning that they should be gently pushed in the direction of the PRC and checked to ensure they know what they should before they fly.

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I'd like to take the first section of Jonathan's reply here and put it up on billboards anywhere the BoG members lives on this planet.

 

I stopped controlling a long time before I stopped flying. Why? Attitudes of the older members, quite happy to jump and shout about everything you are doing wrong, but have no advice on the correct way to do it.
Completely beside the point

 

 

Why not have a quick video instead of an exam? As you're signing up have an embedded 2 min video outlining the basics for connecting to vatsim, not starting on a runway, and a quick interaction with a controller. No sids/stars [Mod - lovely stuff].
A video is not a bad idea at all, but the fact remains that it is much less ignorable if it's solidified by quickly answering dumbed down multichoice or yes/no questions.
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I stopped controlling a long time before I stopped flying. Why? Attitudes of the older members, quite happy to jump and shout about everything you are doing wrong, but have no advice on the correct way to do it.

If anyone does that, they are in the wrong as well. That is not how you should treat newbies.

 

From what I've seen, everyone I've encountered, new or old, has stated that other members have been nothing but helpful in helping them get acquainted to VATSIM. I myself have helped several newbies in getting to grips with VATSIM. Maybe we hang about a different crowd.

 

Why not have a quick video instead of an exam? As you're signing up have an embedded 2 min video outlining the basics for connecting to vatsim, not starting on a runway, and a quick interaction with a controller. No sids/stars [Mod - lovely stuff].
A video is not a bad idea at all, but the fact remains that it is much less ignorable if it's solidified by quickly answering dumbed down multichoice or yes/no questions.

Exactly - a video would be an excellent idea to teach, with a few MCQs behind it to check your understanding. No retake limits, no time limits. Just a 'check', no more.

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