Reykjavik CTA questions

[Philip McNiel 1282687]

Hi! I'm planning a flight from BGSF to BIKF, and I have been reading through the guide to Greenland from the VATSIM-Scandinavia page. I have some questions about how the airspace authority "trickles down" during times when not every position is online:

 

1) I see BIRD_CTR online a lot more than the other stations of the Reykjavik CTA (e.g. BGGL_FSS). VATSpy only shows BIRD_CTR as covering the area around Iceland and the Faroe Islands, and the docomeent says that there is a radar station (usually unmanned on VATSIM) called BIRD_W_CTR that would cover central Greenland with radar service if it were online. The docomeent says that BIRD_CTR "covers all BIRD sectors." My main question is about how much control BIRD_CTR gives when it is the only station open within the Reykjavik CTA. Does it also--contrary to the impression given by VATSpy and VATTASTIC--cover BIRD_W_CTR when that station is not online?

 

2) Who can give clearance delivery? Is it possible that someone who is taking off in a region not covered by the blue of VATSpy or red of VATTASTIC actually may have someone whom they are supposed to ask for clearance before taking off?

[Lindsey Wiebe 1101951]

I can't speak for number 1) but for number 2) quite often you can get a clearance from a neighbouring CTR on one that is close by that you will be entering shortly. However, the will often also get you to go back to UNICOM for taxi, take off, and departure, then you'd switch back to them while climbing out of the Unicom area (where a twr might be). The controller will say something like "your clearance is valid until 04:55 Zulu, time now 04:41" or "your clearance void time is 04:55 Zulu time now..." so if you aren't airborne by that time then you'd need to call them back.

[Wygene Chong 1089621]

Hi Philip!

 

BIRD_CTR covers BIRD_S (top down), BIRD_E (top down) and BIRD_W (above FL195). So essentially Reykjavik covers all the airspace from Norway to Canada, north of Shanwick/Gander and south of ~69-71N. When it says "top down", it means BIRD_CTR covers every APP, TWR, GND and DEL at every airport in that area. So for Central Greenland, BIRD_CTR will not provide APP, TWR or GND services, however, just to be slightly more complicated ( ), it does provide outbound oceanic clearance for international flights out of Greenland. So if you are flying internationally (e.g. from Greenland to Iceland), you will need to contact BIRD_CTR for oceanic clearance before takeoff. They'll usually give you the clearance, then tell you to report back at FL195 for radar service.

 

Vattastic and vRoute are the only programs that show BIRD_CTR correctly. There is a Vatspy update in these forums which I believe might also show it correctly.

 

For completion, BGGL_FSS is an information (not radar) service covering all airports of Greenland top down and airspace below FL195. BICC_FSS is a procedural control service (so it's controlled airspace, but not radar) above FL195 Northern Greenland, and also handles ALL inbound oceanic clearances for ALL sectors (N/E/S/W) and all Greenland oceanic clearances (i.e. taking the job away from BIRD_CTR). Finally, Gander Radio (CZQX_FSS) covers the southern tip of Greenland above BGBW above FL195.

 

It's a nightmare I know, and the sector map is probably the easiest place to understand this: http://vatsim-scandinavia.org/pilots/airports/iceland/sector-map/

 

You will typically see BIRD_CTR online because it has the most duties of all the area positions, which means the busiest frequency. Sector splits (BIRD_E, BIRD_S, BIRD_W) are only seen in events, as is BICC_FSS which acts mostly as a support position to BIRD_CTR by taking away oceanic clearance duties. BGGL_FSS is rarer still, I jump on it when I want to talk to 1 plane every 3 hours

[Philip McNiel 1282687]

Thanks for the explanation! I'm planning on doing the BGSF-BIKF route tomorrow, and it's good to know that I may be in controlled airspace even when it appears I am not. As for the VATSpy update, I've installed it, and it still doesn't light up Greenland when BIRD_CTR is online (apparently because that area is labeled "Sondrestrom FIR").

Edited February 25, 2017 at 06:01 AM by Guest

[Philip McNiel 1282687]

One more thing: Since BGSF has radar coverage, does BIRD_CTR control it when it's not manned by someone else, or does somebody else do that?

[Christoph Reule 1379750]

One more thing: Since BGSF has radar coverage, does BIRD_CTR control it when it's not manned by someone else, or does somebody else do that?

 

Hi,

 

in reality BIRD_CTR only covers upper airspace of Greenland (better said, north of appr 63.20N, the rest is covered by Gander) above FL195, and Sondrestrom CTA goes up to FL195.

 

There's a unit called "Sondrestrom Control" covering the entire Sondrestrom FIR up to FL195. Again, in reality, this is a non-radar position ("flight service station").

[Wygene Chong 1089621]

What Christoph says is correct on VATSIM too So BIRD_CTR is radar above FL195, but Søndrestrøm Information (BGGL_FSS) is generally non-radar below FL195, with the exception of BGSF.

 

Re BGSF: only BGGL_FSS/BGSF_APP/BGSF_TWR have the right to control it top down. The most BIRD_CTR will do is provide oceanic clearances to international flights before takeoff. As you pointed out, BGSF does have radar surrounding it, so when BGSF_APP or BGGL_FSS is online, they will provide a radar approach/departure service for that airport only.