VATUSA Speed Restrictions on Arrivals

[Steven Perry]

With increasing frequency, VATUSA controllers have been [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning me hard speed restrictions on the descent. E.g. "cross BINGO at 10,000 and 250 knots". As I understand it, the 250 knots is not a "or slower" and remains in effect until a controller gives me "resume normal speed", another speed restriction, or an approach clearance. Is this correct?

 

When the frequency is open, I try to request normal speed... and on FNOs the frequency is packed and the controllers are pulling their hair out. As a result, I often end up at 2000' AGL on base leg barreling toward a localizer overshoot at 270 kts ground speed while the controller is trying to find time enough to spit out a proper approach clearance (I've been switched to tower a number of times without approach clearances, but that's another post).

[Johnny Coughlan]

With increasing frequency, VATUSA controllers have been [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning me hard speed restrictions on the descent. E.g. "cross BINGO at 10,000 and 250 knots". As I understand it, the 250 knots is not a "or slower" and remains in effect until a controller gives me "resume normal speed", another speed restriction, or an approach clearance. Is this correct?

 

When the frequency is open, I try to request normal speed... and on FNOs the frequency is packed and the controllers are pulling their hair out. As a result, I often end up at 2000' AGL on base leg barreling toward a localizer overshoot at 270 kts ground speed while the controller is trying to find time enough to spit out a proper approach clearance (I've been switched to tower a number of times without approach clearances, but that's another post).

 

Just enough example of voice latency/quality(the need to repeat) issues.

 

People don't realize that it can take up 30-60 seconds to give and have an instruction read back, until they experience themselves in a busy environment .

 

I'll await the usual it's not us it's you responses.

 

OT: speed restrictions I understand but you're PIC at the end of the day and should fly your plane as safely as practical, joining a LOC at 250kts is not normal.

[1275389]

You are mostly correct Steven.

From FlyingMag:

Speed Restriction/Adjustment (AIM 4-4-12):

1. If a controller issues a speed restriction while vectoring you, it continues to apply with an altitude change.

2. An approach clearance cancels any previously [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned speed adjustment (however, the controller would not anticipate a large speed increase when close to the runway). Pilots are expected to make their own speed adjustments to complete the approach unless the adjustments are restated. Speed adjustments should not be [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned inside the final approach fix on final or a point 5 miles from the runway, whichever is closer to the runway.

3. It is the pilot’s responsibility and prerogative to refuse a speed adjustment that he or she considers excessive or contrary to the aircraft’s operating limitations with a comfortable margin for safety.

If you aren't cleared for the approach and the frequency's jammed then you're kind of out of luck. That hopefully isn't happening so often during FNOs (I've seen it once in the past month or two).

 

Hope this helps.

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

hes got a point though, its often misused and the instructions is basically giving the exception per the CFR's (in cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] C or D for example). me personally, if they want 250kia, they get it, while maintaining to any speed limit

 

§91.117

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).

 

(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] C or Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.

 

© No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).

 

another fun one is trying to join the localizer at 90 degrees, thats always a fun one in some aircraft

 

for reference the FAA AIM recommends

4-4-12

f.

If ATC determines (before an approach

clearance is issued) that it is no longer necessary to

apply speed adjustment procedures, they will:

1.

Advise the pilot to “resume normal speed.”

Normal speed is used to terminate ATC [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned

speed adjustments on segments where no published

speed restrictions apply. It does not cancel published

restrictions on upcoming procedures. This does not

relieve the pilot of those speed restrictions which are

applicable to 14 CFR Section 91.117.

EXAMPLE

−

(An aircraft is flying a SID with no published speed

restrictions. ATC issues a speed adjustment and instructs

the aircraft where the adjustment ends): “Maintain two two

zero knots until BALTR then resume normal speed.”

NOTE

−

The ATC [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned speed [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment of two two zero knots

would apply until BALTR. The aircraft

would then resume a normal operating speed while remaining in compliance

with 14 CFR Section 91.117.

2.

Instruct pilots to “comply with speed

restrictions” when the aircraft is joining or resuming

a charted procedure or route with published speed restrictions.

 

EXAMPLE

−

(ATC vectors an aircraft off

of a SID to rejoin the pr

ocedure

at a subsequent waypoint. When instructing the aircraft to

resume the procedure, ATC also wants the aircraft to

comply with the published procedure speed restrictions):

“Resume the SALTY ONE departure. Comply with speed

restrictions.”

CAUTION

−

The phraseology “comply with restrictions” requires

compliance with all altitude and/or speed restrictions

depicted on the procedure.

3.

Instruct the pilot to “resume published

speed.” Resume published speed is issued to

terminate a speed adjustment where speed restric-

tions are published on a charted procedure.

NOTE

−

When instructed to

“comply with speed restrictions” or to

“resume published speed,” ATC anticipates pilots will

begin adjusting speed the minimum distance necessary

prior to a published speed restriction so as to cross the

waypoint/fix at the published speed. Once at the published

speed, ATC expects pilots will maintain the published

speed until additional adjustment is required to comply

with further published or AT

C [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned speed restrictions

AIM

4/3/14

4

−

4

−

9

ATC Clearances and Aircraft Separation

or as required to ensure compliance with 14 CFR

Section 91.117.

EXAMPLE

−

(An aircraft is flying a SID/STAR with published speed

restrictions. ATC issues a speed adjustment and instructs

the aircraft where the adjustment ends): “Maintain two two

zero knots until BALTR then resume published speed.”

NOTE

−

The ATC [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned speed [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment of two two zero knots

would apply until BALTR. The aircraft would then comply

with the published speed restrictions.

4.

Advise

the pilot to “delete speed

restrictions”

when either ATC [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned or published speed

restrictions on a charted procedure are no longer

required.

EXAMPLE

−

(An aircraft is flying a SID with published speed

restrictions designed to prevent aircraft overtake on

departure. ATC determines there is no conflicting traffic

and deletes the speed restriction): “Delete speed

restrictions.”

NOTE

−

When deleting published restrictions, ATC must ensure

obstacle clearance until air

craft are established on a route where no published restrictions apply.

This does not relieve

the pilot of those speed restrictions which are applicable to

14 CFR Section 91.117.

g.

Approach clearances supersede any prior speed

adjustment [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignments, and pilots are expected to

make their own speed adjustments as necessary to

complete the approach. However, under certain

circomestances, it may be necessary for ATC to issue

further

speed adjustments after approach clearance is

issued to maintain separation between successive

arrivals. Under such circomestances, previously

issued

speed adjustments will be restated if that speed

is to be maintained or additional speed adjustments

are requested. Speed adjustments should not be

[Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned inside the final approach fix on final or a

point 5 miles from the runway, whichever is closer to

the runway.

h.

The pilots retain the prerogative of

rejecting the application of speed adjustment by ATC if the

minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is

greater than the speed adjustment.

NOTE

−

In such cases, pilots are expected to advise ATC of the

speed that will be used.

i.

Pilots are

reminded that they are responsible for rejecting

the application of speed adjustment by ATC

if, in their opinion, it will cause them to exceed the

maximum indicated airspeed prescribed by 14 CFR

Section 91.117(a), © and (d).

IN SUCH CASES,

THE PILOT IS EXPECTED TO SO INFORM ATC.

Pilots

operating at or above 10,000 feet MSL who are

issued speed adjustments which exceed 250 knots

IAS and are subsequently cleared below 10,000 feet

MSL are expected to comply with 14 CFR

Section 91.117(a).

j.

Speed restrictions of 250 knots do not apply to

U.S. registered aircraft operating beyond 12 nautical

miles from the coastline within the U.S. Flight

Information Region, in Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] E airspace below

10,000 feet MSL. However, in airspace underlying a

Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B airspace area designated for an airport, or in

a VFR corridor designated through

such as a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B

airspace area, pilots are expected to comply with the

200 knot speed limit specified in 14 CFR

Section 91.117©.

k.

For operations in a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] C and Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]

D surface

area, ATC is

authorized to request or approve a speed

greater than the maximum indicated airspeeds

prescribed for op

eration within that airspace (14 CFR

Section 91.117(b)).

NOTE

−

Pilots are expected to comply with the maximum speed of

200 knots when operating beneath Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B airspace or in

a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B VFR corridor (14 CFR Section 91.117©

and (d)).

l.

When in communications with the ARTCC or

approach control facility, pilots should, as a good

operating practice, state any ATC [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned speed

restriction on initial radio contact [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated with an

ATC communications frequency change.

[Dan Everette]

With increasing frequency, VATUSA controllers have been [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning me hard speed restrictions on the descent. E.g. "cross BINGO at 10,000 and 250 knots". As I understand it, the 250 knots is not a "or slower" and remains in effect until a controller gives me "resume normal speed", another speed restriction, or an approach clearance. Is this correct?

 

When the frequency is open, I try to request normal speed... and on FNOs the frequency is packed and the controllers are pulling their hair out. As a result, I often end up at 2000' AGL on base leg barreling toward a localizer overshoot at 270 kts ground speed while the controller is trying to find time enough to spit out a proper approach clearance (I've been switched to tower a number of times without approach clearances, but that's another post).

 

It’s easy to point to the FAR or AIM and tell the pilot it’s their fault or point to their responsibilities. It’s ironic in that the way major events are run (and with the limitations of VATSIM) isn’t conducive to real-world operations or authentic.

 

With the relative unrealistic amount of traffic FNO generates, I think it’s a function of two things.

 

1 – Poor or lack of speed management by approach controllers. On countless occasions, I’ve observed vectoring taught with little or no discussion on using speed in separation & sequencing. Using vectors to achieve separation and speed to lock it in isn’t a skill regularly taught or used. Also, different wx engines/sources complicate matters. When a controller gets oversaturated, it’s easier (though not right) to just focus on keeping the green blips away from each other using headings (when even altitude management starts to slip). How many times have you been cleared for an approach and been way too high, either being forced to go around or pretend you're Sean Tucker to try and salvage the approach?

 

2 – The above is (in my opinion) WHAT is happening. The WHY is a bit more complex and more VATSIM nuanced. With rare exceptions, overall traffic management during major events (and I cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ify FNO as such) is atrocious. While the terminal controllers are key players, Center controllers are the linchpin in a successful major event. More specifically, the support and tools the centers get. Who wants to be a TMU? I’d rather talk to airplanes and push blips around. Rather than be proactive with traffic management, we become reactive. Usually the trigger is when there are too many airplanes in the terminal environment, approach is oversaturated, and aircraft doing 250 kts on final. This doesn’t apply just to the center facility that’s hosting the event. Second and third tier facilities are just as important in the big picture. When you have an adjacent facility not-online, it can significantly compound the problem.

 

How to fix it? I don’t know. Training gets you only so far. For major events, it requires a slight change in thinking: “Looking at the terminal environment this second, I don’t care about the guy just handed to approach, I care about the guy 300 NM away”.

 

My $0.02 and 250 kts.

[Dace Nicmane]

§91.117

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).

Who is the Administrator? Is it ATC? Can ATC override the 10000/250 rule?

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

nope. FAA Admin. in our case, he doesnt exist lol or if we play with the wording, its Don

 

believe that part is in reference to the exceptions made for example for fighter jets and some heavy aircraft like the 747 and A380 that need to go a little faster when loaded.

[Simon Kelsey]

§91.117

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).

Who is the Administrator? Is it ATC? Can ATC override the 10000/250 rule?

 

As Ernesto says, no -- the FAA are the Administrator and ATC (in the US) have no authority to waive the limit.

 

This is the major difference between the USA and most of the rest of the world where generally speaking the 250kt limit is a procedural/ATC limit (and thus may be lifted by ATC).

[Steven Perry]

I wasn't speaking of the 250 below 10 rule... I actually want to go slower, but ATC has issued instructions to maintain 250 knots!

 

But thanks to those that confirmed the rules are what I thought they were (RIP Denny Green).

[Dace Nicmane]

If I've had a speed restriction before and then I'm cleared below 10000/FL100 and reduce to 250 on my own, can I consider my speed restrictions cancelled, unless there are new ones on the chart?

[Martijn Rammeloo]

 

2 – The above is (in my opinion) WHAT is happening. The WHY is a bit more complex and more VATSIM nuanced. With rare exceptions, overall traffic management during major events (and I cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ify FNO as such) is atrocious. While the terminal controllers are key players, Center controllers are the linchpin in a successful major event. More specifically, the support and tools the centers get. Who wants to be a TMU? I’d rather talk to airplanes and push blips around. Rather than be proactive with traffic management, we become reactive. Usually the trigger is when there are too many airplanes in the terminal environment, approach is oversaturated, and aircraft doing 250 kts on final. This doesn’t apply just to the center facility that’s hosting the event. Second and third tier facilities are just as important in the big picture. When you have an adjacent facility not-online, it can significantly compound the problem.

 

During Dutchvacc events, we try (...) to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign one C1 (or higher) controller as a supervisor, and we usually have some controllers on standby. The SUP's job is to anticipate (major) changes in the traffic flow and act accordingly: opening secondary (departure and/or arrival) runway, splitting APP and ACC sectors etc.

 

To help him, I have written a simple tool, that shows the amount of inbound traffic heading to our main airport (EHAM): http://ehamgateplanner.rammeloo.com/inboundplanner.php. Note: SUGOL/ARTIP/RIVER are IAF's, all EHAM STARs end at one of them and pilots receive vectors from there. We have used this tool twice, and the SUP was glad to have it.

 

Martijn

 

Note: The terms supervisor and SUP in my post are completely unrelated to the official VATSIM flavor

Edited March 9, 2017 at 12:09 PM by Guest

[Bradford Lee]

During Dutchvacc events, we try (...) to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign one C1 (or higher) controller as a supervisor, and we usually have some controllers on standby. The SUP's job is to anticipate (major) changes in the traffic flow and act accordingly: opening secondary (departure and/or arrival) runway, splitting APP and ACC sectors etc.

 

Rather off-topic, but as a friendly suggestion I would like to caution you against using the title Supervisor and/or the abbreviation SUP for what you described, only because it could lead to confusion possibly on the network. I would recommend TMU (Traffic Management Unit) instead, which I have seen used elsewhere.

[Martijn Rammeloo]

Thanks Brad, I added a PS to my previous post.