Sunil Mulay Posted March 9, 2017 at 04:05 PM Posted March 9, 2017 at 04:05 PM Hi Guys I am building my own dual seat 737 cockpit. It will also have two jumpseats, and therefore 4 headphones. The sim will run on 5 PC's in total, 2 for avionics, and 3 for visuals. If at all possible on Vatsim, I would like to have the ability to monitor and talk on COM1 and COM2 in parallel, with voice, as in the real world. Is this at all possible? I was thinkng of having each headset plug into a separate computer and use Teamspeak for intercom communication, and have vPilot installed on the two PCs which have the Captain and F/O headsets connected. Is there a way, by using networking, or observer mode, or any other trick to enable the captain to transmit and monitor on the COM1 frequency and the f/o to monitor and transmit on the COM2 frequency? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted March 9, 2017 at 04:45 PM Posted March 9, 2017 at 04:45 PM Is there a way, by using networking, or observer mode, or any other trick to enable the captain to transmit and monitor on the COM1 frequency and the f/o to monitor and transmit on the COM2 frequency? This would require that you have two separate copies of the sim running, because the sim can only be set to transmit on one COM radio at a time. So if each pilot has his own sim, with his own copy of vPilot talking to that sim, then it would work. One of those pilots would connect in observer mode. So if you have multiple copies of the sim running, synced together (which it sounds like you will) then I think it could work. You would have to make sure that whatever method you're using to sync the sims would not try to sync the state of the radio stack. Plus, if you are interfacing radio hardware with the sim, it would have to connect the COM1 hardware to the COM1 radio on the pilot's sim, and connect the COM2 hardware to the COM2 radio on the FO's sim. The main thing that limits a single copy of vPilot from providing the ability for the two pilots to be transmitting on different frequencies is the fact that the sim only allows one COM radio to be enabled for transmit at a time. You can be listening on both, but only transmitting on one. Obviously I could add custom code to work around this limitation, perhaps by using custom FSUIPC offsets to toggle transmit on each COM radio, but that's a lot of work for a feature that would only be useful for dual seat cockpit situations, which is a very small subset of the user base. Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunil Mulay Posted March 10, 2017 at 11:40 AM Author Posted March 10, 2017 at 11:40 AM Hi Ross Thanks for the speedy reply. Yes, I will have 3 computers running a version of P3D each (one for each projector). My understanding is that the Avionics programme (Prosim, for example) will sync the various panels including radio stack with the main P3D installation (the flying PC which is the one connected to the centre projector). I will have FSUIPC, Wideview, etc installed, but I am not sure if they sync the radio stacks of the other two sim PC's with the main sim. I am also not sure I understand your comment that they SHOULDN'T sync....? The way I saw it was that I WOULD want the second sim PC (the one where I will install vPilot for the F/O) to sync wih the main sim PC. That way I know that COM1 and COM2 in both those sim PC's will reflect exactly what we programme in on the Comms radio stack. Then I just need to set the vPilot installation on the Pilot PC to Rx and Tx on COM 1 and the vPilot installation on the F/O PC to Rx and Tx on COM 2. Am I missing something? Thanks Sunil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted March 10, 2017 at 12:27 PM Posted March 10, 2017 at 12:27 PM Yes, I will have 3 computers running a version of P3D each (one for each projector). My understanding is that the Avionics programme (Prosim, for example) will sync the various panels including radio stack with the main P3D installation (the flying PC which is the one connected to the centre projector). I will have FSUIPC, Wideview, etc installed, but I am not sure if they sync the radio stacks of the other two sim PC's with the main sim. I'm a prosim user as well, and you're right that it will sync its avionics displays with the main prosim application, which connects (via SimConnect) to the main instance of P3D. I also use three projectors, but I run them all off the same PC, so I don't have any experience with Wideview, so I'm not sure what it syncs. I *think* it only syncs the position of the aircraft, as well as traffic, but I'm not sure. I think you might actually need another copy of Prosim so that the FO's radio hardware can be interfaced with the second copy of Prosim, which would be running on the FO's copy of P3D. Otherwise changes that the FO makes to his radios will be sent to the Captain's copy of P3D. I am also not sure I understand your comment that they SHOULDN'T sync....? The way I saw it was that I WOULD want the second sim PC (the one where I will install vPilot for the F/O) to sync wih the main sim PC. That way I know that COM1 and COM2 in both those sim PC's will reflect exactly what we programme in on the Comms radio stack. Then I just need to set the vPilot installation on the Pilot PC to Rx and Tx on COM 1 and the vPilot installation on the F/O PC to Rx and Tx on COM 2. Right, you want your two radio stacks to be set differently. They are on the same frequencies, but the tx/rx state is different, so you don't wan it synced. Also, you want the FO to be able to change the COM 2 frequency on his PC, and not have the Captain's COM 2 frequency immediately override the FO's COM 2 frequency. So you essentially want COM 1 to sync from captain to FO, and you want COM 2 to sync from FO to captain. I'm not sure if that's doable with Wideview or any other program. I would post a message in the Prosim forums to see if anyone else has tried to create a similar configuration. Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunil Mulay Posted March 10, 2017 at 12:36 PM Author Posted March 10, 2017 at 12:36 PM Yes, I see what you are saying now. I will look into it further with the guys supplying the cockpit. Just another question on this subject if I may. I will have two jump seats with headphones. Let's say I manage to achieve the above with parallel captain and f/o comms. I would like the observers in the jumpseats to be able to hear incoming ATC audio. My thoughts are that I will link the observer behind the F/O to the F/O's vpilot (receive only) and the observer behind the captain to the captain's vpilot (again receive only). I can use 2 other PC's for this. Is the best way to achieve this to have each vPilot installation in network mode (ie. 2 masters and 2 slaves), with the masters running the captain and f/o headsets, and the slaves running the observer headsets? Thanks again! Sunil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted March 10, 2017 at 03:51 PM Posted March 10, 2017 at 03:51 PM I would like the observers in the jumpseats to be able to hear incoming ATC audio. My thoughts are that I will link the observer behind the F/O to the F/O's vpilot (receive only) and the observer behind the captain to the captain's vpilot (again receive only). I can use 2 other PC's for this. Is the best way to achieve this to have each vPilot installation in network mode (ie. 2 masters and 2 slaves), with the masters running the captain and f/o headsets, and the slaves running the observer headsets? No, that can't work ... each copy of vPilot (whether split into host/remote or standalone) can only feed ATC audio to a single audio device. You can't have the vPilot host feed one audio device and the vPilot remote feed a different audio device. When running vPilot in networked mode, you have to choose either the host or the remote (not both) to handle voice comms. I'm thinking you can just run vPilot in standalone mode, one for the captain, one for the FO, and then use audio splitter software to feed a copy of each pilot's audio to the headset for the [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated jump seat. So the two jump seat positions would have their headsets plugged into the same computers as the captain or FO, and you would use software to copy the audio from the captain's device to the left jump seat, and do the same thing on the other computer to copy the FO's audio to the right side jump seat. Here's one such piece of software: http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.htm Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunil Mulay Posted March 11, 2017 at 10:26 AM Author Posted March 11, 2017 at 10:26 AM Thanks again Ross. Will look into that. As I muse about the possibilities of getting around the first challenge, I thought it's just worth asking....is it possible to install vPilot twice on the same PC to connect to the same installation of Prepar3D? If so, that might solve my issue, as I can set one for Captain, the other for F/O, and then use VAC audio splitting software to feed the in/out of the F/O's vPilot to another PC..... Thanks Sunil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Alvarez 818262 Posted March 11, 2017 at 03:44 PM Posted March 11, 2017 at 03:44 PM network only allows a single login, that sounds like itd run into that issue and trigger the second users account to get blocked. think the simpler solution for you is as Ross mentioned above. have vpilot on one of the boxes, run a shared PTT to that box so both yokes can have an a PTT (easily done by [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning the buttons to push a virtual key, then [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign that key as PTT), then run your headsets to that box via splitter. keeps everything VATSIM related to one box. doing that you should be to get all headsets working together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted March 11, 2017 at 04:02 PM Posted March 11, 2017 at 04:02 PM is it possible to install vPilot twice on the same PC to connect to the same installation of Prepar3D? No, you can only run one instance of vPilot at a time on a single PC. The primary reason for this restriction is the fact that only one process can open the voice port. (That's an operating system limitation.) If so, that might solve my issue, as I can set one for Captain, the other for F/O, and then use VAC audio splitting software to feed the in/out of the F/O's vPilot to another PC..... Why would you need to send the FO's audio to another PC? network only allows a single login, that sounds like itd run into that issue and trigger the second users account to get blocked. That wouldn't be an issue since he would use a different account for each one. It's a dual-seat home cockpit, so each pilot would have an account. Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Alvarez 818262 Posted March 11, 2017 at 04:37 PM Posted March 11, 2017 at 04:37 PM true but doesnt the network need to know about it first so they know how to handle it if it gets flagged from the same IP since theyll be sharing an internet connection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted March 11, 2017 at 11:17 PM Posted March 11, 2017 at 11:17 PM true but doesnt the network need to know about it first so they know how to handle it if it gets flagged from the same IP since theyll be sharing an internet connection? Oh, I see now that I misread your post. (I thought you were [Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming both connections would use the same account.) I'm not sure if having two connections from the same IP, but on different accounts, is a problem. The CoC doesn't say anything about that. It just says you can't use the same account for more than one concurrent connection except for a voice ATIS connection. I would hazard a guess that supervisors might see multiple connections from the same IP, but then see that they are connected with different accounts, both of which appear to be legitimate accounts, and they would see that one of them is in observer mode with a matching callsign, and in the same exact physical location, and not question it. Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunil Mulay Posted March 12, 2017 at 12:56 AM Author Posted March 12, 2017 at 12:56 AM Thanks Ernesto and Ross. My situation is a bit trickier. I will be using real aviation headsets (Telex Airman 750 GA) plugged into the PCs using Fligh Sound X adapters. I want to set them up also to have intercom between them, so was going to use Teamspeak for that, with the intercom PTT's activating Teamspeak. My understanding for Teamspeak to work is that I need to set up a Teamspeak server on one PC, and then the other 3 PC's will connect to that server. Hence the headsets need to be connected to 4 different PC's and not 1. Also ideally I would like the Captain and F/O to be able to monitor and transmit on different frequencies like in the real aircraft (Yes, I know I'm asking for it all!! ) So it looks like I'm back to Ross's suggestion of having two vPilots, one in Observer mode, hoping Vatsim controllers will be ok with that. To make this work I still have one sticking point: I need Prosim and/or FSUIPC to be able to sync the comm frequencies of at least 2 of the 3 Prepar3D installations. I am trying to find a way of making this happen. If this is not possible, then I will have to accept that only the captain (or F/O) can transmit, and will have to have only one installation of vpilot on the Flying PC, and then split the audio out to a second PC for the F/O (so that Teamspeak can still work for Intercom). Thanks for all the ongoing help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunil Mulay Posted March 12, 2017 at 01:08 AM Author Posted March 12, 2017 at 01:08 AM I guess my Plan B (If I can't get the COMs of the two Prepar3D installations to sync) would be to connect the captain and f/o R/T PTT's to the Captain's vPilot as Ernesto suggested. As the captain and F/O headsets are connected to different PC's (for Teamspeak to work), I would need to use Virtual Audio Cable to send all mic input from F/O PC to Captain PC. Also, audio ouput from Captain PC would need to go to all other 3 PCs for F/O and observers to hear ATC. This would probably need a few USB sound dongles and VAC I am guessing. This way both captain and F/O can transmit, BUT only on one frequency at a time. A reasonable compromise, but sounds a bit tricky to set up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Board of Governors Simon Kelsey Posted March 14, 2017 at 10:19 AM Board of Governors Posted March 14, 2017 at 10:19 AM Sunil, What I would suggest you might be better off with here is not multiple instances of vPilot, or even Teamspeak, but some audio hardware. vPilot already provides the option to output COM1 and COM2 to different audio outputs (I think?). You only need one audio input to vPilot. What you then need is a means of monitoring different outputs and routing your inputs appropriately. This is s job for a mixer/audio router, rather than TS or a VATSIM client. That's broadly how I've seen it implemented in sims I've seen - mics go in to a mixer and thence to vPilot, and each pilot's ACP is effectively their own mixer where they can select what they're listening to (one source - many outputs). Likewise the PTT triggers the master vPilot PTT, but with some external coding only the mic on the side the PTT is pressed is 'faded up'. Vice President, Pilot Training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted March 14, 2017 at 02:07 PM Posted March 14, 2017 at 02:07 PM Simon, the issue is that he wants each pilot to be able to transmit on a different frequency. Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunil Mulay Posted March 14, 2017 at 02:56 PM Author Posted March 14, 2017 at 02:56 PM Hi SImon Thanks for your input. I don't think I am ready yet for the technological challenge of playing around with hardware like that! My preferred option, as Ross points out, is to have simultaneous and separate comms on Com 1 and 2, which in my scenario would best be achieved by being able to sync two installations of Prepar3D. My understanding is that the Prepar3D Professional Plus license does do this. But for now, I think I will compromise and go with the "one pilot communicating at one time" option. Thanks both of your for your [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance. Cheers Sunil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Gimenez Posted February 2, 2022 at 09:08 AM Posted February 2, 2022 at 09:08 AM I know this might be bringing up old news, but has this been figured out yet. I am going to be using Prosim, and wanted to know how to get it to work with dual seat trainer as well. Also when the Captain PNF pushes the PTT , how can we program to mute the PF mic so it does not pick up anything that person is saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted February 2, 2022 at 03:26 PM Posted February 2, 2022 at 03:26 PM Nothing has changed in terms of dual pilot support in the VATSIM voice system and therefore not in vPilot either. Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts