Shared Cockpit + "Direct *waypoint*"??

[Justin Berry 1388016]

Question 1: I have a friend interested in joining me for a few VATSIM flights. I've never done a shared cockpit flight before, can I get some help and pointers?

 

Question 2: Lets say I'm taking off a runway and told to fly runway heading. After a bit tower or departure tells me to fly direct to a waypoint on my GPS. How to I fly direct to a waypoint WITHOUT cancellation of my flight plan?

Edited May 24, 2017 at 09:03 AM by Guest

[Robert Shearman Jr]

How to I fly direct to a waypoint WITHOUT cancellation of my flight plan?

Using the default GPS?

 

a) if it's a VOR, tune it on NAV1, spin Course knob until needle centers pointing *toward * it, switch HSI from GPS to NAV mode, then switch back to GPS once you reach the VOR and rejoin the planned route.

 

b) if it's some other point, eyeball a heading by zooming out on the GPS screen and switch to Heading mode until reaching it, then back to NAV mode once you do. (that one's pretty BS as far as realism goes, but usually good enough for sim purposes. Not really recommended though.)

 

c) say, "unable, default GPS" and either request vectors or ask to remain on planned course.

[Bradley Grafelman]

Robert pretty much covered the two options I used (a and b) back when I used the POSKY 737 with default GPS. Depending upon how crazy the wind is and how busy your workload is, manually flying a HDG to approximate a "direct to" isn't always too bad.

 

Whatever you do, just don't go into lateral GPS mode and let it try to rejoin a path direct from your departure airport to the first waypoint.

[Randy Tyndall 1087023]

Justin,

 

You asked this very same question 9 or 10 days ago in the Charts, Navigation thread. Here's how I answered your question 8 days ago...

 

Excellent questions Justin. Glad to see you are wanting to do things right.

 

If you download a flightplan from a third party source that will let you export it in to your flightsim as a .pln file, then yes, it will also bring with it the waypoints of the SID and STAR along with that flightplan. But here's the deal, if those waypoints by name do not exist in your flightsim NavData base you will not see their names show up in your flightplan list. It will be just a "point" in your GPS that indicates where that waypoint is. Your aircraft will follow the GPS to that and all other points just like they existed in your sim.

 

As for being given a "direct to" shortcut, yes that is also possible with the default GPS, but it's tricky. One way is to simply use the D> (Direct To) key on the GPS. That will take you straight to that waypoint. The drawback to this is that your flightplan disappears and all you are left with is the "Direct To" leg. Not a good thing, especially with a long and complicated flightplan. You'll have to do "Direct To's" to all the other waypoints in the plan. That can get frustrating.

 

A better way is to press the "FPL" key on the GPS. Once you do that you will see a line by line text version of your plan. For instance, if you fly the SUMMA9 off runway 34R at KSEA using the Baker City (BKE) transition you would see, in order, NICHY, NEZUG, a right turn to intercept the 146 Radial of the SEA VOR, then direct to SUMMA, BKE, and beyond, probably the BOI VOR.

 

So, let's say you take off from 34R, follow the GPS to NICHY, then to NEZUG, then begin your right turn to intercept the 146 Radial. But, before you get to the radial (or even finish your turn) ATC says "cleared direct Baker City VOR" skipping the radial and the SUMMA intersection completely. Easy to do.

 

Click on the "FPL" key on the GPS. The text list of each waypoint appears. There will be a Magenta colored line linking two waypoints in that list. This is the current leg you are flying. Press the "CRSR" or "Cursor" button and the cursor begins to flash. Using the "+" hotspot beside the "CRSR" button scroll the flashing cursor down TO THE NEXT WAYPOINT AFTER the one you were given the direct to. In my example you would scroll down until "BOI" was flashing. Now press the "Menu" button on the GPS. You will see a prompt that says "Fly Leg BKE to BOI" and the word "activate" will be flashing. Press "ENT" on the GPS panel and your aircraft will now proceed direct to BKE because that is where the BKE to BOI leg begins.

 

See, easy.

 

Randy

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Click on the "FPL" key on the GPS. The text list of each waypoint appears. There will be a Magenta colored line linking two waypoints in that list. This is the current leg you are flying. Press the "CRSR" or "Cursor" button and the cursor begins to flash. Using the "+" hotspot beside the "CRSR" button scroll the flashing cursor down TO THE NEXT WAYPOINT AFTER the one you were given the direct to. In my example you would scroll down until "BOI" was flashing. Now press the "Menu" button on the GPS. You will see a prompt that says "Fly Leg BKE to BOI" and the word "activate" will be flashing. Press "ENT" on the GPS panel and your aircraft will now proceed direct to BKE because that is where the BKE to BOI leg begins.

Randy, I'm not 100% certain (maybe 95% though), but I don't believe it will go DIRECT -- I believe it will intercept the imaginary *extended* leg *prior* to BKE which then continues straight on to BOI. If you tried this and your aircraft seemed to fly a direct-ish heading, it may have been that the intercept path the GPS created to that extended leg just so happened to coincide with a direct-ish heading to the first location. I'll have to play with that this weekend and maybe make a video demonstrating this. I could be wrong but I'm almost certain the default GPS cannot do ANY *proper* "Direct-To" function without eradicating the planned flight path.

[Randy Tyndall 1087023]

Robert,

 

I guess I can't say with 100% surety that what I describe is correct, but I've done this many, many times, including in FSX right before I posted my reply to Justin's post in Charts and Navigation Thread.

 

My Route was KSEA to KBOI. My plan was SUMMA9.BKE BOI and the waypoints were NICHY NEZUG SEA146R SUMMA BKE BOI. I took off on Runway 34R and let the aircraft follow the GPS to NEZUG. It began a right hand turn toward SUMMA. I opened the FPL page of the GPS, moved the cursor to highlight "BOI" and went to the MENU page. It read "FLY BKE to BOI LEG" and "Activate" was highlighted in flashing white. I pressed enter and then watched as my B738 flew to BKE, overflew it, then turned toward BOI. Now, maybe it intersected the magenta line and not BKE, I don't know. When I selected the BKE-BOI leg I was still 140 nm from BKE so the heading may have been so negligible that I only "appeared" to overfly BKE?

 

I've been given the "Proceed direct BKE when able" instruction by ATC many times flying out of KSEA to Boise on the SUMMA Departure, in aircraft with an FMC and in ones with just the GPS. FMC's are a no-brainer. They definitely track the aircraft to the BKE VOR. I've done it with the GPS just as I described and not once has ATC come back on and asked "confirm you are heading direct BKE VOR". Now, maybe it's an "oddity" of that DP and that Transition that it works? Like you, I'll have to play with others, maybe the LOOP DP out of LAX, always a Pilot-ATC "Doi" moment.

 

Randy

[Robert Shearman Jr]

To clarify, I don't think it's the *original* magenta line, but an invisible origin-facing extension of the segment which you've newly activated, that it intercepts. So it'll overfly the starting point of that leg, but it'll try to do that on a course that it can then continue straight on into the new active leg rather than needing to make a turn to the new course at that point.

 

I can probably explain it better in diagrams than words, but I'm not near my desktop at the moment. But I'm definitely curious now, so I'll work up a few varying test cases & see what I find out, and will post results once I have them.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Route: KBWI PALEO3 ENO KORRY3 KLGA

Equipment: default LearJet 45, with route created via SimBrief and loaded into GPS via Flight Planner screen

Procedure: departed 15R, flew runway heading for a couple minutes, then direct to one of three test cases (SPEAK, Smyrna/ENO, and SKIPY). Simulated the "Direct-To" as per Randy's instructions, by activating the leg in the default GPS which BEGINS with the directed point and ENDS with the point AFTER it. I have saved videos of these demos just in case there are any doubts.

 

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll209/rmsjr1974/default-direct_zpsbjijrrcb.png

 

It didn't exactly do what I predicted, but, it definitely didn't do a proper "direct" either. I guess it's close enough to get you by if you're in an empty sky (i.e. offline), but, in VATSIM, it could certainly get you a "confirm you're direct _____?" or even put you into conflict with other traffic.

 

EDIT / UPDATE:

I did a fourth test-flight using the method I described above to fly direct Smyrna (ENO), by tuning it on 111.4, adjusting Course until needle centers, and engaging NAV mode on both Autopilot and HSI. While enroute to the VOR, you should do as Randy suggests, which is to activate the leg starting at ENO -- because this is where you'll resume the GPS-plotted path.

Then switch to GPS mode once reaching ENO. You can see comparing figure 4 with figure 2 that the result is much more accurate. But, that depends on the shortcutted point being a VOR, which won't always be the case.

 

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll209/rmsjr1974/default-direct_zpsiaigixso.png

[Randy Tyndall 1087023]

Excellent report, Robert. Even if it's a VOR it also depends on you being high enough and close enough to receive the VOR's signal, though. Departing Seattle, BKE's signal is not as strong, clear across the state in Northeastern Oregon, and the Cascades are in your way until you get some altitude.

 

Your method is probably best in an "active" environment. As they say on the "Forged in Fire" series...It will cut (close enough I think).

 

There ya go, Justin. Hope you pop back in to say "Thanks" and let us know how this works for you. I noticed you never did go back to the other thread about this topic in Charts and Navigation.

 

Randy

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Even if it's a VOR it also depends on you being high enough and close enough to receive the VOR's signal, though.

Yes, excellent point. Often, the ATC "shortcutted" locations are several hundred miles distant from present position, leaving you with the "eyeball heading" method or the "please let me remain on my planned course" method.

 

Or -- Google this: EasyFMC.

[Randy Tyndall 1087023]

Robert,

 

Good suggestion, but for those aircraft in my stable without an FMC I bought Ernie Alston's Integrated Simavionics Group ISG1 FMC. Put it in all my frequent fliers, so I have "tons" of "payware" aircraft at my disposal with it, and update ready from Navigraph.

 

Which reminds me, the new cycle is out. Better go grab it.

 

I need to talk to you about the P5 and beyond.

 

Randy