Flying SIDS and STARS with the CIVA INS

[Fredric Greenblott 1346549]

Hi all!

 

I recently got around to buying the Captain Sim 707, and it is an amazing aircraft to fly. I also added the CIVA INS to the panel, and I love it. Flying with an INS is so much more immersive and hands-on than just following that little magenta line

 

Only problem is, I can't seem to find a way to put SIDS and STARS onto the CIVA INS accurately, especially if they're RNAV (The 707 technically isn't RNAV capable, but I fly with the default Garmin GPS as well ). Because of this, 9 times out of 10 I generally file a flight plan that has radar vectors to my first waypoint. (I know that's how they did it in the old days before SIDS and STARS, but I gotta stay with the times, you know ).

 

Any way I can accurately put a SID/STAR into the INS?

 

Thanks!

[Randy Tyndall 1087023]

Fredric,

 

I also enjoy navigating with the CIV-A INS. I have a triple INS in my Concorde and Dual INS systems in the B737 Tinmouse II, almost all of my vintage props, almost all of my jet aircraft from HJG incouding the B707, and the Captain Sim C-130, virtavia C-17, and alphasim C-5.

 

You don't say the region of the world you typically fly in, but I'm [Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming Europe. I typically fly here in the US, so finding the latitude and longitude of even RNAV waypoints is simple, AirNav.com and then go to the "Fixes" tab and type in the waypoint ID. It will give you the lat/lon of any current US waypoint, even RNAV.

 

Europe is a different matter, though, and I know Europe is becoming heavily RNAV and charts don't always provide the Lat/Lon of RNAV waypoints. If there is a site like AirNav for other regions of the world maybe someone else can chime in here and offer it. I also believe if you dig deeply enough into each country's AIP/AIS you will find a page that will list waypoint lat/lon data, much the same way parking stand lat and lons are given on aerodrome parking charts.

 

I typically, when flying in Europe or other regions of the world besides the US, just insert all the known lat/lon waypoints of my flightplan and make the lat/lon of the arrival airfield airport reference point my last entry. I fly radar vectors to the approach, but the CIV-A INS will still let me know a distance because the airfield is my last point.

 

Filing /A is what I typically do when using an aircraft with the CIV-A. That way I can fall back on VOR guidance if I get into an active online controlled area. There used to be an equipment code just for aircraft with an INS installed, /I, but it has gone the way of the Dodo. I also put "Using CIV-A INS for Navigation-No RNAV Please" in my comments. You'd be surprised, or maybe you wouldn't, how many times I'm asked what the heck is a CIV-A INS.

 

Same thing happens when I fly the Connie, but doubly so. Not only do they want to know what the CIV-A INS is, but they cannot fathom why I need to level off at 10,000 feet or so for a few minutes to slowly bring all four engines out of High Turbo into Low Turbo without going into a supercooling situation and lose an engine.

 

Good luck, though. There has to be a resource somewhere like AirNav and someone here will find it.

 

Have you tried Celestial Navigation yet with the Bubble Sextant available from AVSIM? CN does work in both FS2004 and FSX believe it or not. I use it as well. Really throws a kink in ATC's knickers at times. They don't believe me. I looked up the guidance on Celestial Nav once, I think in ICAO docomeentation, and found a section that allows aircraft, typically military aircraft with student navigators on board, a 20nm leeway either side of their intended flightpath between fixes when operating with Celestial Navigation.

 

Randy

[Matthew Burton 1270824]

Hello,

This wont help much for the R-NAV stuff, but theirs still plenty of non R-NAV procedures around. What's stopping you just tuning into a VOR or NDB to fly the procedure? Your going to have to anyway if your instructed to hold.

 

Regards

Matthew

[Fredric Greenblott 1346549]

Fredric,

 

I also enjoy navigating with the CIV-A INS. I have a triple INS in my Concorde and Dual INS systems in the B737 Tinmouse II, almost all of my vintage props, almost all of my jet aircraft from HJG incouding the B707, and the Captain Sim C-130, virtavia C-17, and alphasim C-5.

 

You don't say the region of the world you typically fly in, but I'm [Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming Europe. I typically fly here in the US, so finding the latitude and longitude of even RNAV waypoints is simple, AirNav.com and then go to the "Fixes" tab and type in the waypoint ID. It will give you the lat/lon of any current US waypoint, even RNAV.

 

Europe is a different matter, though, and I know Europe is becoming heavily RNAV and charts don't always provide the Lat/Lon of RNAV waypoints. If there is a site like AirNav for other regions of the world maybe someone else can chime in here and offer it. I also believe if you dig deeply enough into each country's AIP/AIS you will find a page that will list waypoint lat/lon data, much the same way parking stand lat and lons are given on aerodrome parking charts.

 

I typically, when flying in Europe or other regions of the world besides the US, just insert all the known lat/lon waypoints of my flightplan and make the lat/lon of the arrival airfield airport reference point my last entry. I fly radar vectors to the approach, but the CIV-A INS will still let me know a distance because the airfield is my last point.

 

Filing /A is what I typically do when using an aircraft with the CIV-A. That way I can fall back on VOR guidance if I get into an active online controlled area. There used to be an equipment code just for aircraft with an INS installed, /I, but it has gone the way of the Dodo. I also put "Using CIV-A INS for Navigation-No RNAV Please" in my comments. You'd be surprised, or maybe you wouldn't, how many times I'm asked what the heck is a CIV-A INS.

 

Same thing happens when I fly the Connie, but doubly so. Not only do they want to know what the CIV-A INS is, but they cannot fathom why I need to level off at 10,000 feet or so for a few minutes to slowly bring all four engines out of High Turbo into Low Turbo without going into a supercooling situation and lose an engine.

 

Good luck, though. There has to be a resource somewhere like AirNav and someone here will find it.

 

Have you tried Celestial Navigation yet with the Bubble Sextant available from AVSIM? CN does work in both FS2004 and FSX believe it or not. I use it as well. Really throws a kink in ATC's knickers at times. They don't believe me. I looked up the guidance on Celestial Nav once, I think in ICAO docomeentation, and found a section that allows aircraft, typically military aircraft with student navigators on board, a 20nm leeway either side of their intended flightpath between fixes when operating with Celestial Navigation.

 

Randy

 

Hi Randy,

 

I actually do live in the USA . I also fly the Concorde X, but Concorde's flight plans were special so I have no problem flying the CIVA INS on Concorde X and loading the pre-programmed ADEU cards. It's creating an entirely new flightplan that gets me a lot. I could try and look up on AirNav for waypoint lat/longs, and when I fly a VOR approach or I file a non-RNAV SID, I just use the coordinates of the VORs/waypoints the SID gives me. Seems to work alright. When I fly the 707, I usually set my equipment code to /Z, since I do use the default GPS and if absolutely necessary, I can fly an RNAV departure by following the GPS. Now I'll set my slant to /A, since the default FSX GPS is a bit... Iffy, if you know what I mean. Also, whenever I fly the CIVA, I do what you do and put "USING CIVA INS, NON-RNAV" in my remarks. Unfortunately, some controllers seem to disregard that and give me an amendment to my flight plan and give me an RNAV departure.

 

As far as flying a STAR, guess I could just tell them I'm using the INS when I check in with a center and that I'll be requiring radar vectors for the approach. That'd be fine, wouldn't it?

[Randy Tyndall 1087023]

Ah, well, that's great then. I use AirNav a lot to find the lat/lon of RNAV waypoints, both for the CIV-A and for building approaches in Airport Design Editor.

 

You mentioned the ADEU in the Concorde. It will work in the B707 also in case you have never tried. Also, there is a utility available at the AVSIM library called "conv2adeu", also, in case you weren't aware. Here is the link...

 

https://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=Conv2ADEU&CatID=root&Go=Search

 

If that link doesn't work because you're not logged in, just log in to AVSIM and search for conv2adeu.zip

 

What that program does, in case you're not familiar with it, is take a standard FS2004 or FSX flightplan and converts it into an ADEU Card or Cards you can then use to load into the CIV-A MCDUs. If you have a favorite flightplan website where you can get real world current plans complete with sids and stars that will let you down load the plan into an FS2004 or FSX format, you then use conv2adeu to convert it to an INS set of waypoints, even the ones in the Sid and STAR (even if those waypoints don't exist in your sim.

 

Randy

[Lindsey Wiebe 1101951]

When flying in the US you could just put your flightplan into skyvector.com (most of the RNAV's will populate on the chart) then right click each RNAV point and it will show the GPS coordinates.

 

I'm really tempted to get the Captain Sim DC10 and plop in the CIVA and go old school like that, just for the challenge.