Gilles Van Hooff 1332794 Posted November 11, 2017 at 11:27 PM Posted November 11, 2017 at 11:27 PM Hey guys! I'm relatively new to vatsim and I was wondering how you as a pilot can know which runway you'll be landing at and what STAR to take. I used to fly offline and plan everything via PFPX, but in vatsim it can change. So is there a way to anticipate what the runway will be and what STAR to take without having to ask ATC? Same question about SID's... On the ATIS I can listen to what the active runway is but when I look at my flightplan there is no SID that goes to the first waypoint. Do I have to go back to PFPX and determine what SID I can use trough that? It's really bugging me because I've had several cases where the ATC would ask me to refile my flight plan because I wasn't using a suitable SID... Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Perry Posted November 12, 2017 at 04:02 AM Posted November 12, 2017 at 04:02 AM Welcome to VATSIM! Where are you planning to fly? The answer might depend on this. In the USA, most airports are not served by runway-dependent STARs or SIDs. Even for those airports with runway-dependent procedures, file what you expect to fly based on the current or forecast weather. If a change is required, ATC should amend your flightplan for you and clear you via the appropriate route. If you decide a new SID/STAR is required, request it from ATC. (If there's no ATC online, just fly the new procedure.) I don't recommend going back into your flight planning / dispatching system after you've entered cockpit unless something drastic occurs. The unexpected is part of the fun! Steven Perry VATSIM Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Ying Posted November 12, 2017 at 05:38 AM Posted November 12, 2017 at 05:38 AM To echo what Steven said, in the US, STARs may or may not be runway dependent, depending on which airport you're flying to. In general though, STARs are designed for and used on arrivals from specific directions. At Kennedy (KJFK), arrivals from the west use the LENDY6, south use the CAMRN4, and north/east use the IGN1, ROBER2, or PARCH2. SIDs are often similar where they're names after the exit fix that they lead to. The US also has SIDs named for the airport such as the Kennedy 3 Departure (JFK3) which is a general SID that applies to all runways and most if not all exit fixes available from that airport. Kennedy Charts Here For an example with STARs, Boston (KBOS) has RNAV and non-RNAV arrivals. The RNAV arrivals have runway specific transitions, but the non-RNAV ones don't. For the RNAV STARs, you'll get an instruction from the center controller to "descend via the [sTAR Name] runway [Runway #]." In those cases, you'll have to be ready to select and fly the correct transition when it's [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned to you. For the non-RNAV STARs, you'll fly the STAR with center giving you descent instructions and then get vectors to the approach from the approach controller. In either case, you can determine which runways are in use based on the ATIS which you should always listen to before contacting the approach controller for the first time. Boston Charts Here At other airports, such as Kennedy (KJFK), all of the arrivals just get you to the approach airspace. There are no runway specific STARs. Again, you can listen to the ATIS to know which approaches are in use and the approach controller will [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign an approach to you. In your flight planning process, you can sometimes determine what's in use based on the weather or by checking the ATIS before doing your programming. Of course, the weather and runways in use can always change. The other thing you can do is check the Preferred Routes Database or look up what is flown in the real world. FAA Preferred Routes Flightaware IFR Routes Of course, if you fly outside of the US, little to none of the above applies. Instructor // ZNY/ZWY Facility Coordinator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted November 12, 2017 at 09:32 AM Posted November 12, 2017 at 09:32 AM From what our statistics show, Gilles flies mostly in Europe. While PFPX will give you mostly workable routes, the most efficient way is to always consult a professionally run route database first. As mentioned before, there is FlightAware, but also SkyVector. For routes in North America they will give you excellent results. For Europe it is different: please check out vroute: http://www.vroute.net . It is also freeware and after installation you'll have direct access to thousands of flightplan routes, that get checked for validity each and every month. Copy and paste those routes into PFPX to calculate your fuel required and other things. Through vroute you can also prefile your flightplan! After selecting a route ("route" ==> "Advanced"-tab ==> "show" to select a route ==> "Export" tab, fill in the required fields for callsign, type of aircraft etc. ==> "Export format" choose "VATSIM prefile page link. If you then click on the generated URL, you'll be forwarded to VATSIM's prefile page in your web browser. You can still edit details and comments on that page before submitting the FPL (flightplan), it will then be available for 2 hours. Just make sure you login to VATSIM with exactly the same callsign that you used when prefiling the plan. Another way to directly access flightplan routes from vroute is to install another freeware program: Qutescoop: https://sourceforge.net/projects/qutescoop/ Primarily it is an "online viewer" to see the current status of VATSIM (ATC, pilots), but you can also access vroute's database through the menu "Plan" ==> "Routes". Search for routes there and you'll get the same results as through vroute. Maybe that is something that you prefer and prefiling is possible as well. By the way, if you want to make your life easier when prefiling a plan and your web browser is set to save your login names and p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]words, then go to the prefiling-page now https://cert.vatsim.net/fp/file.php and ONLY enter your full registered name+homebase (ICAO code, e.g. EBBR for Brussels) in field 14, then your VATSIM ID in field 15 and finally your VATSIM p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word in field 16. Now click on the button "File Flight Plan" and although you'll receive an error message, because your FPL is not complete, your web browser should save your login details for future use. At least that works for me with Firefox. Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dace Nicmane Posted November 12, 2017 at 01:43 PM Posted November 12, 2017 at 01:43 PM (edited) Same question about SID's... On the ATIS I can listen to what the active runway is but when I look at my flightplan there is no SID that goes to the first waypoint. Do I have to go back to PFPX and determine what SID I can use trough that? It's really bugging me because I've had several cases where the ATC would ask me to refile my flight plan because I wasn't using a suitable SID... Thanks in advance! It's rare, but there are cases when the waypoint/SID names don't match (I think it was the case in EHAM with EDUPO/LUNIX (now RENDI) or just where there are no SIDs to certain waypoints from certain runways). Just use the charts to confirm the correct SID. Also, you shouldn't be filing your SID (and STAR) in Europe, ATC will [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign it to you (and they usually fix the flight plan for you if they're not terribly busy and you're new). But you can predict it, as others have said, and plot your route on skyvector to make sure it makes sense and you know where you're going. As for the USA STARs, even though they're not runway dependent and you know what to file, the runway transitions obviously are, so you still need to know your runway to choose the correct transition and to plan your altitude/speed. In some places there are even different transitions for parallel runways, so you can't plan based on weather/ATIS alone and you get the transition from ATC much like you get the whole STAR from ATC in Europe. If you know where your airline is parking at the arrival airport, it may help you guess the correct runway. Edited January 1, 2018 at 10:18 PM by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thimo Koolen Posted November 13, 2017 at 09:03 AM Posted November 13, 2017 at 09:03 AM It's rare, but there are cases when the waypoint/SID names don't match (I think it was the case in EHAM with EDUPO/LUNIX (now RENDI) or just where there are no SIDs to certain waypoints from certain runways). Just use the charts to confirm the correct SID.. That's true and there's logic behind this. Pilots sometimes make SID errors and because the runways can be used in an outbound peak scenario, we don't want that, so we decided to name a few SIDs different. And in a few cases, there's two SIDs for one waypoint from the same runway. For example ANDIK from runway 24 has ANDIK1S (left turn) and SPY2K (right turn). The reason is that 24 is often used with 18L during an outbound peak, so off-peak pilots will get ANDIK1S because it's shorter (and with 24, often 18R is for landing so it's no conflict either). With an outbound peak, 24 departures to ANDIK get SPY2K, so as they don't get a conflict with the 18L departures. If the right turn version (SPY2K) was named like ANDIK2K for example, you can bet some pilots accidently pick ANDIK1S, causing a conflict. For those interested, this is a SID and STAR cheat sheet (18R and 36R cannot be used for departures, arrivals only): ACCNL4 (Training Director) - Dutch VACC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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