Vatsim Procedure Question

[John Bakelaar 1139223]

Recently I planned a flight from KTEB to KSAV. The KTEB area showed coverage by NY_EWR_DEP. I contacted that controller for clearance and was politely informed that he wasn't controlling KTEB. I was at a loss as to how to proceed. Do I not get clearance and take off treating KTEB as an uncontrolled field and contact him once airborne....and tell him what? Takeoff using uncontrolled field procedure and proceed contacting no one and monitor unicom. This is probably the most difficult thing for me to wrap my brain around with Vatsim (which I very much enjoy). I understand the compromises that must be made....the real world is so much less confusing...

[Don Desfosse]

Hi John. The folks from NY ARTCC could probably elaborate much more eloquently than I, but the way I understand how ZNY works, they use a graduated progression for their TRACON controllers, starting at the DEP position and then working up to the APP position, which I believe can also work both APP and DEP positions combined.

 

In general, on VATSIM, as we use a top-down methodology, if you find a situation where no higher controller is controlling the airspace, you do indeed operate uncontrolled until you get into an airspace that is controlled by the "correct" controller for that airspace, or higher. In general, if you are looking for clearance, you'd get it from DEL (e.g. TEB_DEL). If no DEL online, you'd get it from GND. If no GND online, you'd get it from TWR. If no TWR online, you'd get it from DEP. If no DEP online, you'd get it from APP. If no APP online, you'd get it from CTR.

 

ZNY's scheme can be rather confusing. However, most of their controllers are very good at describing what airports/airspaces they are providing what service (e.g. "Departure only", "Approach and Departure", etc.) for. You'd find this in their Controller Information, found in their ATIS (if published), and if using vPilot, by double clicking on the controller position in the controller list.

 

That said, what I don't understand, and why we probably need someone more familiar with ZNY's procedures to weigh in, is that I would have expected NWK DEP to provide DEL, GND and TWR services for TEB. But, and again I'm just not familiar with how ZNY's procedures work in this instance, maybe NY_NWK_DEP can only work EWR traffic and not the N90 Newark Sector satellites? But your question is a good one; once you've taken off, even if you took off on Unicom, would you need to contact NY_NWK_DEP? I'd think yes, with something like "New York Departure, EJA988 is off of Teterboro, one thousand two hundred climbing two thousand." Again, hopefully someone more familiar with ZNY's procedures can weigh in.

 

In your case, if a DEP controller said he was not handling TEB, but NY_ARD_APP (which is the primary Newark Approach Control position identifier) were online, you would contact NY_ARD_APP for service from TEB. Similarly, if if a DEP controller said he was not handling TEB, NY_ARD_APP was not online, but NY_CTR were online, you would contact NY_CTR for service from TEB.

 

That all said, if a controller tosses you a curve ball like that, it's not only a good idea to ask the controller for clarification, but it's highly encouraged.

 

Hope this helps, and hopefully someone more familiar with ZNY procedures can help clarify.

[Josh Glottmann]

To add on to what Don said. [Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming that no one was online to cover TEB, it would be treated as an untowered field and you would just monitor/provide traffic information UNICOM similar to how you would on a real world CTAF. You would continue to treat the airspace as uncontrolled until you encounter an online controller that covers the airspace you are in.

[Ira Robinson]

There is no official position with the callsign NY_EWR_DEP. It should have been the controller staffing NY_NWK_DEP who is to provide at a minimum, departure services, top down, to Newark and its satellites. Teterboro (KTEB) is certainly one of those satellites. I would suggest that if you have the person's name that you send feedback to the ATM. He will be interested in hearing this. There is no point in reviewing all of the various staffing and controller options in ZNY airspace, and certainly not in N90. Suffice it to say that under full VATSIM level staffing (meaning not the real world, which is even a larger number) a pilot could speak with seven controllers from the time he received his clearance until the time he has left the airspace. Lots of fun actually.