Can't find any documentation on *what* to say

[William Roberts 1420260]

Hey guys,

 

I'm trying to get spun up on flying with VATSIM. I understand how to take off, fly, and land my aircraft, as well as the basics of navigation, however... I can't get from the ramp to the runway.

 

Nowhere, not related to the FAA, not docomeented anywhere, can I find the specifics of what I need to say to get cleared from the gate to airborne, and what to do when I get where I'm going. Is there some paper course I can go through, or somebody I can right-seat with learn the ins and outs?

 

Thanks for your help!

[Steven Perry]

You usually cannot go wrong with: Who you are calling, Who you are, where you are, what you want to do.

 

Exceptions...

1) Once you are airborne, also include your altitude.

2) Once someone tells you "radar contact" then you can stop reporting your position.

 

E.g.

 

Kennedy clearance, UAL123, A terminal, request clearance to Timbuktu.

Detroit Ground, AAL123, B terminal, ready to taxi.

O'Hare Tower, DAL123, holding short of runway 27R, ready for departure.

 

 

For more info...

http://www.vatsim.net/pilot-resource-centre

http://www.liveatc.net

[Wygene Chong 1089621]

One of the pilot rating courses should help you out as you can go through a flight with an instructor.

 

I know you're probably looking at US phraseology - styles differ in every country - but here are the Icelandic pilot guides which include extensive examples of what to say: http://vatsim-scandinavia.org/pilots/airports/iceland/. They basically step you through various phases of flight including on the ground procedures, just replace our IFR oceanic bits with whatever your IFR clearance is.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Nowhere, not related to the FAA, not docomeented anywhere, can I find the specifics of what I need to say to get cleared from the gate to airborne, and what to do when I get where I'm going.

Hi William -- register at vatstar.com, then look under "Resources" and "More..." to find VFR and IFR phrase guides. The IFR one is actually a bit more clear-cut & easy to follow than the VFR one (in my opinion) since IFR flight is so much more procedurally regimented.

[Joaquin Blanco]

You can download the radiotelephony UK manual from here: https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?catid=1&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=6973

[Ben Fan 1392211]

To keep it simple, you don't need much to know what to say on ATC. Do the VATSIM Pilot or ATC training courses or you can just follow a very simple structure that can take you everywhere.

 

To start a flight on the ATC, always start with DEL (Clearance Delivery (or just Delivery)). Use a structure call Who, Who, What, Where. This is a basic structure that states your target ATC, yourself, what you want to do and where you are.

 

E.g.

For DEL:

- Good Morning Sydney Delivery, N569FL requesting IFR clearance to Wollongong as filed

 

For GND: (Asking for Start and Push)

- Good Morning Sydney Ground, N569FL requesting startup and push back at parking 8

 

For GND: (When ready to Taxi to active runway (Check ATIS)

- Sydney Ground, N569FL, ready to taxi to Runway 34R, departing South (or your departure route) at parking 8

 

For TWR: (When you're holding short at runway, ready for take-off)

- Morning Sydney Tower, N569FL, requesting take-off at Runway 34R, h/p Tango 6

 

For DEP/APP: (After you take-off (TWR will usually direct you to contact DEP/APP)

- Morning Sydney Departures, N569FL with you at FL050, to (wherever), at (wherever)

 

For CTR:

- (Just mention your flight and CTR will direct you from there)

[Josh Glottmann]

For CTR: (Just mention your flight and CTR will direct you from there)

Check in with your altitude please...

[Ben Fan 1392211]

For CTR: (Just mention your flight and CTR will direct you from there)

Check in with your altitude please...

 

Oops, I forgot. I was in a hurry to finish that last CTR part, so I didn't even bother writing an example. Lol

[Dace Nicmane]

Morning Sydney Tower, N569FL, requesting take-off at Runway 34R, h/p Tango 6

You never request takeoff, you say you're ready for departure if you're a prop aircraft. If you're a jet aircraft, you don't say anything, unless you think tower has forgotten about you.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

You never request takeoff, you say you're ready for departure

I'm glad someone agrees with me on that! Some of VATSTAR's lesson material mentions that, and I was asked at one point to quote my source on it. I said, "uh, I dunno, common wisdom?" I had always heard that you never used the word "takeoff" unless you were reading back a clearance to do so. But I've been doubting that for the last few months because someone asked me where I learned that and I couldn't really remember.

[Don Desfosse]

The following pertains to the US:

 

Back in the day, when I was actively flight instructing, there used to be several examples in the AIM that clarified that the proper terminology was "ready for departure." Sadly, now, the AIM, para 4-3-10(e)EXAMPLE is the only example given in the AIM of "ready for" phraseology related to aircraft departing. FAA JO 7110.65 also contains "ready for departure" phraseology, but pilots would not normally ever consult the FAA JO 7110.65. Sadly, at least in the US, it seems that with the other examples deleted from the AIM, there is only one, and it really only pertains to Intersection Departures, so one must simply surmise that the "ready for departure" terminology is the correct terminology for more than just Intersection Departures, as it's no longer concrete elsewhere in the AIM or in other FAA instructional publications (e.g. PHAK, AFH, etc.).

[Kirk Christie]

Brevity in radio messages, keep it short and to the point.

 

You are using Sydney as your reference, and loading up with non standard phraseology, the official word from the phraseology section of the AIP

 

For DEL:

- Good Morning Sydney Delivery, N569FL requesting IFR clearance to Wollongong as filed

AIP 5.10 1 (Callsign) TO (destination) REQUEST CLEARANCE

Do not say "as filed" do not say IFR/VFR, ATC has your flight plan and can see the flight rules you have requested, also ATC are not going to clear you for a flight you have not filed for....

 

For GND: (Asking for Start and Push)

- Good Morning Sydney Ground, N569FL requesting startup and push back at parking 8

AIP 5.15.3 1 (callsign) [aircraft location] REQUEST PUSHBACK

There is no need to request start unless it is specifically stated in the ATIS, and that only relates to aircraft that don't require pushback to manage traffic, as traffic that is situated on an apron can start and move to the first designated taxiway without ATC approval.

 

For GND: (When ready to Taxi to active runway (Check ATIS)

- Sydney Ground, N569FL, ready to taxi to Runway 34R, departing South (or your departure route) at parking 8

AIP 5.15.4 1 (callsign) INFORMATION (ATIS Letter) REQUEST TAXI

 

For TWR: (When you're holding short at runway, ready for take-off)

- Morning Sydney Tower, N569FL, requesting take-off at Runway 34R, h/p Tango 6

AIP 5.15.6 1 (Callsign) READY

 

For DEP/APP: (After you take-off (TWR will usually direct you to contact DEP/APP)

- Morning Sydney Departures, N569FL with you at FL050, to (wherever), at (wherever)

AIP 5.15.8 2 (Callsign) P[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ING (level) CLIMBING TO (level)

[Liesel Downes]

As outlined in Kirk's reply, it is best to keep your radio calls short but with enough information to get your point across. Nothing is worse than someone on a busy frequency spending 10 seconds saying useless stuff to the controller.

VATPAC has a text tutorial on an IFR flight from YMML to YSSY with full ATC. Although it doesn't really comply with the phraseology standards, it demonstrates how to effectively talk with ATC.

[Simon Kelsey]

You never request takeoff, you say you're ready for departure

I'm glad someone agrees with me on that! Some of VATSTAR's lesson material mentions that, and I was asked at one point to quote my source on it. I said, "uh, I dunno, common wisdom?" I had always heard that you never used the word "takeoff" unless you were reading back a clearance to do so. But I've been doubting that for the last few months because someone asked me where I learned that and I couldn't really remember.

 

Like most things in aviation, this came about as a result of an accident - specifically the Tenerife disaster where it was considered that amongst other things the liberal use of the word 'take-off' when, in fact, no take-off clearance had been given was a factor in convincing Van Zanten he was cleared.