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CTP westbound NATS


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Hello,

 

I have selected a flight plan for Cross the pond westbound the flight is from EGLL - CYYZ and because this is my first time participating in Cross the pond westbound i need a bit of advice

my route is

WOBUN UL10 DTY DCT SAPCO UN57 TNT UL28 PENIL M144 BAGSO DCT ETARI DCT 56N020W 57N030W 56N040W 54N050W DCT NEEKO N482A YRI DCT DICEN Q848 LETAK DCT IMEBA

my question is 56N020W 57N030W 56N040W 54N050W DCT NEEKO a NAT.

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Not only will you be [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned a NAT, you'll be [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned an entire route.

Ryan Geckler - GK | Former VATUSA3 - Division Training Manager

VATSIM Minneapolis ARTCC | FAA Miami ARTCC 

Cross the Pond Planning Team

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Also, bookings haven't occurred yet, so there's no guarantee you'll get a slot from and to your first choice airports.

 

But yes, route planning will all be done for you & emailed out a few hours before the event.

 

There is no requirement to fly with a slot, it is just prefered.

Kirk Christie - VATPAC C3

VATPAC Undercover ATC Agent

Worldflight Perth 737-800 Crew Member

956763

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There is no requirement to fly with a slot, it is just prefered.

 

No, just turn up, destroy the effort put in to planning the event to make it enjoyable for everybody because YOU are the most important thing in the sky and theres no rule to stop you, so that's OK.

 

If I were one of the CTP organisers I think I'd be questioning why to bother. Let's just have a free for all.

Vice President, Pilot Training

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There is no requirement to fly with a slot, it is just prefered.

 

No, just turn up, destroy the effort put in to planning the event to make it enjoyable for everybody because YOU are the most important thing in the sky and theres no rule to stop you, so that's OK.

 

If I were one of the CTP organisers I think I'd be questioning why to bother. Let's just have a free for all.

 

Ive controlled oceanic for CTP for a number of years, they actually cater for "non event" traffic, they even have dedicated controllers for them, how else do they deal with traffic that flys from ports not participating in CTP, and traffic flying the opposite direction? The planning team have it covered.

Kirk Christie - VATPAC C3

VATPAC Undercover ATC Agent

Worldflight Perth 737-800 Crew Member

956763

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Those that invest the time and interest to get a slot (and are lucky enough to do so) are rewarded with a preferential route and a good chunk of their flight planning done for them. We've made it a lot easier for non-slot traffic to participate and feel welcome over the years, but they typically get a decidedly non-preferential route and should expect significant delays if they are trying to fly during the actual event times. It's a trade-off -- still get to participate in the event though don't get "gold star" treatment. Incidentally, over the years, I've tried very hard to get folks to use the terminology "non-slot" as opposed to "non-event" (a nod to inclusivity).

Don Desfosse
Vice President, Membership

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So what, pray tell, is the point of the slot system? If it really doesn't matter, why is so much effort put in to setting it up?

 

Cross the pond plans for about 400-600 slots in a 6 hour period, during CTP there is almost 1200 pilots on line.

 

CTP team don't plan slots for pilots that fly into and out of a CTP nominated port to other destinations

CTP team don't plan slots for pilots that fly Transatlantic to and from Ports that are not nominated CTP airport pairs.

 

Are these pilots that are indirectly participating in CTP also destroying the effort made by the CTP planning team?

 

The network does not come to a stand still for the 400-600 pilots that managed to get a slot for CTP.

 

For what its worth there was 641 slots this year, and they were gone in 2 hours and 31 minutes.

Kirk Christie - VATPAC C3

VATPAC Undercover ATC Agent

Worldflight Perth 737-800 Crew Member

956763

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Would you contend then, Simon, that those that don't have a slot are barred from participating? Certainly they wouldn't be expecting a smooth experience. But surely our message is not "stay at home and don't bother"...

David Zhong

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Would you contend then, Simon, that those that don't have a slot are barred from participating? Certainly they wouldn't be expecting a smooth experience. But surely our message is not "stay at home and don't bother"...

 

Well, to some extent yes. You can't force anyone, but I would suggest that if you don't get a slot then it seems a tad selfish to just say 'oh well I'll just turn up anyway'.

 

The result is the ludicrous ground and air delays that EVERYONE subsequently ends up with because people who don't get a slot just gatecrash it anyway.

 

As I say - why not just give everyone a flight plan? Why bother with slots at all?

Vice President, Pilot Training

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I have maybe once or twice had a slot for CTP otherwise it has been without a slot.

Some of the times it has been from a non-event airport to a event airport or the other way around.

So should that stop me for flying, no.

 

However when I fly without a slot I try to depart a little prior to the event to avoid being in the middle (also tries that with a slot) so I can get use of the ATC but without being to much of a pain for the ATC and the event traffic.

 

This time I had read the date of the slot release and was a day late.

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Would you contend then, Simon, that those that don't have a slot are barred from participating? Certainly they wouldn't be expecting a smooth experience. But surely our message is not "stay at home and don't bother"...

 

Well, to some extent yes. You can't force anyone, but I would suggest that if you don't get a slot then it seems a tad selfish to just say 'oh well I'll just turn up anyway'.

 

The result is the ludicrous ground and air delays that EVERYONE subsequently ends up with because people who don't get a slot just gatecrash it anyway.

 

As I say - why not just give everyone a flight plan? Why bother with slots at all?

 

641 slots went in 2 hours and 41 minutes, the slots a released at 1300z, for me thats 2100 local, for David that was Midnight.

 

Thats just for traffic participating in CTP.

 

You still have pilots that are not participating in the CTP by way of flying to the paired airports that indirectly affect the Air ground delays, what do you propose you do about them?

 

It almost sounds like your solution, in order to not destroy the efforts put in by the planning team, is to tell every one else to stay off the network to facilitate 641 pilots that were lucky enough to get a slot.

Kirk Christie - VATPAC C3

VATPAC Undercover ATC Agent

Worldflight Perth 737-800 Crew Member

956763

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I have maybe once or twice had a slot for CTP otherwise it has been without a slot.

Some of the times it has been from a non-event airport to a event airport or the other way around.

So should that stop me for flying, no.

 

However when I fly without a slot I try to depart a little prior to the event to avoid being in the middle (also tries that with a slot) so I can get use of the ATC but without being to much of a pain for the ATC and the event traffic.

 

This time I had read the date of the slot release and was a day late.

 

That's exactly what myself and some friends do, an "unofficial CTP" ahead of the slots to take advantage of ATC but without the carnage that ensues as everyone steps over each other during the event.

Trevor Hannant

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This is the case for all of the biggest events in VATSIM, regardless of whether a slot system is in place or not. Some patience and understanding on everyone's part is what makes it a positive experience. Come and do the first leg of Worldflight sometime (if you haven't) and you'll see similar chaos. This is simply the reality of these kinds of events and certainly it's not everyone's cup of tea - but there are plenty of other events that aren't so oversubscribed.

 

The planning team have made provision for non-slot and non-event traffic. Hence I don't think it is against their intention to minimise the amount of non-slot and non-event traffic. I don't think it is for any of us to seek to impose some sort of moral code outside the desires of the planning team. And indeed in previous events, event planners and senior VATSIM people have celebrated the high connection count as a marker of the success of the event - something that would not be possible without the participation of non-slot and non-event traffic.

David Zhong

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But why not just have unlimited slots? Why go through the charade of having 641 slots if it's all just going to go out the window anyway?

 

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but if I try and sign up for an event (of any description - on VATSIM or anywhere) with limited slots and don't get one, I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume the numbers are limited for a reason and stay away rather than just try and barge my way in anyway. Obviously not how we're meant to behave on VATSIM.

Vice President, Pilot Training

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Slots are part of the fun. If you have a slot, you can be sure that you will depart at that time, more or less. Also, it shows that you commit yourself to this event. If you turn up without a slot, you will not get refused, but you MAY face delays. End of story, nothing to see, keep on walking. Enjoy CTP!

 

EDIT: typing error

Edited by Guest
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