Real world license=VATSIM Pilot Rating conversion?

[Kevin Lee 1059001]

Hi guys, this question maybe answered before, but I'm quite curious, since the CPL+Multi Engine Instrument Rating+VOR & ADF are pretty much equivalent to VATSIM Pilot Rating P5 requirements, is there any chance we can get the P5 by validating our real life license and ratings?

 

Cheers,

Kev

[Camden Bruno]

What's the point of getting the P5 rating if you're not going to have fun by putting in the work to get the certification? It's not about simply having the title - that's pointless. It's about showing that you've completed the same standards as all other VATSIM pilots to achieve the rating. Thousands of the individuals who fly on the network have real-world experience ranging from Student Pilot to ATP with dozens of type ratings. I'm not aware of anyone who has been granted a P rating as a result of their real-world experience, and I'm definitely not in favor of it.

[Ross Carlson]

It's about showing that you've completed the same standards as all other VATSIM pilots to achieve the rating.

 

If that's what it's about (and I agree), then why does it matter if you completed those standards on VATSIM or in the real world?

[Simon Kelsey]

In answer to your question: it depends.

 

As the Director of Training at a VATSIM ATO, I have a number of staff with real-world qualifications varying from PPL student to B744 TRE and most things in between.

 

Because I am a believer in common sense, for some of those people who are engaged in examining duties who require the rating for administrative purposes, I have been happy to byp[Mod - Happy Thoughts] the normal training process: BUT I (or one of my examiners) always conduct a check flight beforehand in order to satisfy all concerned that they meet all the required standards in the simulated environment in which we work.

 

The same, incidentally, is true of me: even in cases where I have written the course, I have never simply 'signed myself off' for a rating, nor would I expect that to be the case: I have to p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] the check just like everyone else, and my staff and I have a very clear understanding that regardless of our roles within the organisation or real-world experience, if any of us fails to meet the standard on that check flight it is the duty of the examiner to fail us. For me, it's just an integrity thing and nobody on my staff has ever had a problem with that.

[Andreas Fuchs]

...especially as a pilot rating won't provide you with any privileges/rights on VATSIM. It's a different thing with ATC ratings, where you NEED to have a certain level to staff a position. In a distant past, us RW pilots/ATCOs got those ratings served on a silver plate, but we still had to go through airport qualifications/training for specific sectors - another quality check. I do hold a RW ATPL and received by C3 through this, but I am very aware that VATSIM has lots virtual ATCOs without RW licences who do a muuuuch better job than me as vATCOs!

[Kevin Lee 1059001]

In answer to your question: it depends.

 

As the Director of Training at a VATSIM ATO, I have a number of staff with real-world qualifications varying from PPL student to B744 TRE and most things in between.

 

Because I am a believer in common sense, for some of those people who are engaged in examining duties who require the rating for administrative purposes, I have been happy to byp[Mod - Happy Thoughts] the normal training process: BUT I (or one of my examiners) always conduct a check flight beforehand in order to satisfy all concerned that they meet all the required standards in the simulated environment in which we work.

 

The same, incidentally, is true of me: even in cases where I have written the course, I have never simply 'signed myself off' for a rating, nor would I expect that to be the case: I have to p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] the check just like everyone else, and my staff and I have a very clear understanding that regardless of our roles within the organisation or real-world experience, if any of us fails to meet the standard on that check flight it is the duty of the examiner to fail us. For me, it's just an integrity thing and nobody on my staff has ever had a problem with that.

 

Hello SImon,

 

Thank you so much for your comprehensive reply. And I really appreciate your work on VATSIM training/check and highly agree with your opinion. A check ride like you doing totally make sense as a pilot that competent flying in the real world may not familiar with the simulated environment.

[Kevin Lee 1059001]

...especially as a pilot rating won't provide you with any privileges/rights on VATSIM. It's a different thing with ATC ratings, where you NEED to have a certain level to staff a position. In a distant past, us RW pilots/ATCOs got those ratings served on a silver plate, but we still had to go through airport qualifications/training for specific sectors - another quality check. I do hold a RW ATPL and received by C3 through this, but I am very aware that VATSIM has lots virtual ATCOs without RW licences who do a muuuuch better job than me as vATCOs!

 

Hi Andreas,

 

Just like you mentioned, the pilot rating would not provide any extra privileges and I didn't even notice its existence before checking my profile yesterday. I was just bit curious cuz 10+yrs ago before I joined RW operation, I was flying online on a different org and they had some conversion sort of things back then. I am also amazed by many VATSIM ATCs and Pilots' competence, knowledge and skills, and I am extremely enjoy flying on VATSIM regardless what rating do I have

[Andreas Fuchs]

Correct. For ATC-ratings there are some fast-track programs available based on RW pilot and ATC licences. But a candidate will still have to prove his competence, so the minimum is usually some kind of "over-the-shoulder check".

 

EDIT: typo

Edited April 27, 2018 at 07:09 AM by Guest

[Kevin Lee 1059001]

What's the point of getting the P5 rating if you're not going to have fun by putting in the work to get the certification? It's not about simply having the title - that's pointless. It's about showing that you've completed the same standards as all other VATSIM pilots to achieve the rating. Thousands of the individuals who fly on the network have real-world experience ranging from Student Pilot to ATP with dozens of type ratings. I'm not aware of anyone who has been granted a P rating as a result of their real-world experience, and I'm definitely not in favor of it.

 

Well mate, don't get me wrong, I was just bit curious about this kind of conversion as I heard other platform use to have some thing like it. To be honest I enjoy flying on VATSIM and ratings are not giving any effects over my VATSIM experience but you make me feel pretty bad about asking this questions and also made me feel quite useless about putting so much effort in the RW, p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing countless exams, checks and fighting to find related jobs to feed my family.

 

Regarding with the standard, I doubt the RW standard would be any easier than the VATSIM standard. Yes, thousands of the individuals fly on VATSIM have RW licenses, maybe you are one of them as well, I hope you could understand that the effort they put on getting their RW licenses, ratings and endorsements are equality or even more difficult and time/money consuming than VATSIM checks, so it's not really pointless but a good idea to give them some acknowledgement and respect over the hard work they've done in the real life.

[Camden Bruno]

and also made me feel quite useless about putting so much effort in the RW, p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing countless exams, checks and fighting to find related jobs to feed my family.

 

A bit dramatic, don't you think? I never frowned upon your experience or stated that it was useless or easy. All I said was that there's a lot of people like you on this network and your situation isn't special.

 

Yes, I am a real-world pilot as well. As I stated above, I simply don't feel that we deserve special recognition for it. As someone else expressed, the pilot ratings don't even grant you anything other than the title. So what's the point of simply handing them out to the thousands of VATSIM members who have real-world ratings? Again, the entire point of the P ratings is to have fun achieving them. For real-world pilots, it'll also refresh some skills. If you hand them out to all real-world pilots, it turns into a simple label rather than a fun, educational program. I guess a good question for you is: Why do you want your P5? To simply flaunt the label on your VATSIM Statistics page? Or to actually learn something/have fun while achieving it?

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Can, Andreas, Simon...

 

Well said, brothers!

[Josh Glottmann]

So you want a label that no one can see unless they view your stats page - got it...

[Andreas Fuchs]

This thread was "dead" already, good to revive it

[Dace Nicmane]

Josh, are you saying pilot ratings are good for nothing... just kidding. Second Andreas

[Removed]

Andreas, please confirm I understand you correctly.

 

Did you say you received a C3 rating (a permanent VATSIM controller rating) based on the fact that you hold a real world airline transport pilot license?

[Norman Blackburn]

Back in the day that is how it worked MMH.

[Removed]

I didn't know. Thanks for that information, NB.

[Andreas Fuchs]

Yes, why not? That was procedure in the early days of VATSIM and I was not the only one. We were the foundation that VATSIM was built on and we got this fast upgrade based on our RW licencing status and performance on the network.

[Removed]

Andreas, while I will keep my response limited, I was just curious why a VATSIM controller rating was awarded based on a real world pilot license. I think I find myself in good company for one not knowing that this was what VATSIM did back in the day, and, to an extent, that it does seem strange.

 

One can read all about your contributions to VATSIM and your real world flying adventures by simply reading your posts on the forum. I would never even dare questioning that.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Correct. For ATC-ratings there are some fast-track programs available based on RW pilot and ATC licences. But a candidate will still have to prove his competence, so the minimum is usually some kind of "over-the-shoulder check".

I think this is the key point. Even for those who hold real-world certifications, ratings are not automatically awarded. There may be an abbreviated process, but, there's still some demonstration of competency that needs to take place. I would suggest that the Pilot Ratings are no different.

[Removed]

Case being here that there are no clearly defined competencies which must be met for a VATSIM C3 rating, at least, if I recall correctly, not since I joined, which was a bit over 10 years ago.

 

Allow me to quote the VATSIM Global Ratings Policy:

 

A Senior Controller (C3) rating may be awarded to a controller already certified to provide the six (6) standard VATSIM controller services described above AND who also provides other services NOT related to a control role covered by the ratings for: DEL, GND, TWR, APP, DEP or CTR. The rating of Senior Controller (C3) may be awarded by any VATSIM Division to give recognition of seniority, performance or any additional role beyond that of a normal Controller (C1) as determined by the local Region/Division.

 

Most Regions/Divisions hand it out for one reason or another as described above. VATUSA to the best of my knowledge does not, albeit if that is true, I know of a recent exception to this.

 

My question has been answered by Mr. Blackburn and I invite everyone to resume discussion on the OPs question which refers to real world pilot ratings conversion to VATSIM pilot ratings.

 

Sorry for the disruption.

[Andreas Fuchs]

Hi Michael,

Andreas, while I will keep my response limited, I was just curious why a VATSIM controller rating was awarded based on a real world pilot license. I think I find myself in good company for one not knowing that this was what VATSIM did back in the day, and, to an extent, that it does seem strange.

 

One can read all about your contributions to VATSIM and your real world flying adventures by simply reading your posts on the forum. I would never even dare questioning that.

no worries, I was as surprised about your question as you probably were surprised about my statement regarding "awarded ratings". I was only one of many who got this, so I did not write this "to keep my name clean", but it was rather an attempt to point out that there was a good number of members who received those ratings in the beginning of VATSIM. Norman was a tad faster, confirming that this was "usual" back then. Actually, these days a C1 would be sufficient, but if I remember correctly back then C1 and C3 really were different ratings in terms of conditions.