Controllers issuing clearances to points outside their area

[Jan Naslund]

Hi,

 

It has happened to me a few times now that I an given a clearance to a waypoint which is outside the controllers area.

 

Normally this is not a problem for me as a pilot but there are 2 things I don't like with it. The first is that when I am flying along a route I will be fairly certain that if I am at the correct flight level I won't have a near miss or collision with another aircraft. When I am cleared direct to XXXXX I am "unprotected" and might cross several other routes and cause an accident.

 

Another this is that I have been berated by controllers for not following the route once they come online and start controlling and discover me in their airspace.

 

This happened to me yesterday when I flew from ESSA to EGLL and the EKDK_CTR cleared me to BUKUT which is a waypoint in UK airspace. This direct to routing took me into Dutch airspace. No dutch controller was active at the time so I was handed over to Unicom. After a few minutes the EHAA_CTR came online. I contacted him and he complained to me that I was not following a route.

 

I told him i was cleared by the Danish controller but got no reply.

 

I guess i could have refused the direct to BUKUT clearance from the Danish controller but i did not expect to receive a complaint from the Dutch controller for not following a route.

 

What would the correct procedure be for a pilot in the situation where the controller clears me to a point outside his/her airspace?

 

Best Rgs / Janne

[Dace Nicmane]

Being on an airway doesn't protect you from a conflict with another aircraft. Airways intersect, planes climb and descend etc. You should always watch out for other planes.

 

Controllers normally edit the flightplan to reflect the change, so there shouldn't be a problem for the next controller. I guess there was some misunderstanding in this case.

 

But if you still prefer to stay on the airway, you can always refuse the direct.

[Mark Smith 1119598]

A simple flightplan edit from the controller before he released you could have avoided this.

[Andreas Fuchs]

EHAA_W_CTR should not have complained or at least acknowledge your information. No fault with you, just carry on.

[Johnny Coughlan]

I guess i could have refused the direct to BUKUT clearance

 

You're pilot in command, if you're not comfortable doing something, don't, simple.

 

but i did not expect to receive a complaint from the Dutch controller for not following a route.

 

The controller should've accomodated your direct routing, or routed you back to and airway if it was such a big problem for him, not have a go at you.

 

What would the correct procedure be for a pilot in the situation where the controller clears me to a point outside his/her airspace?

 

Back to my first point, if you're not comfortable, don't .

[Matthijs Pals 1260467]

Good afternoon,

 

This is the EHAA controller speaking and I would like to clarify some things.

I saw you entering my airspace from the north and was surprised, because you flightplan initially doesn't even p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] my airspace at all, it was following an airway to the west of it. Because it was not supposed to be in my airspace it came as a surprise. It happens quite often that pilots give themselves a direct when no ATC is online to take a shortcut. It creates confusion because pilots will be at places where they are not expected, and sometimes even in airspaces where they are not expected, like in this case.

 

This is the reason why I asked you not to deviate from the FP unless instructed by ATC. You then told me that the direct was given by EKDK which is 2 airspaces away (EDWW between them). It is not standard practice for a controller to give a direct to a location outside his airspace unless it has been coordinated with a controller of that airspace. As I recall EKDK had been closing just a few minutes before I was not able to confirm or deny this direct with EKDK. Whenever a controller gives a direct he changes the flightplan so that the direct is visible for other controllers, this was not the case. At this time workload at EHAM gave me limited time for extra chitchat over this matter and I decided to put my focus on flights that were a little more time sensitive, like on final, etc. I changed the flightplan to match the direct and gave you the ATC-service you can expect for a overflight, and thought that the matter was solved.

 

I apologize if I did not respond further to messages about this matter, and I hope that this will not discourage you from flying in the future.

 

Kind regards,

 

Matthijs Pals

[Morten Jelle]

Hi Jan,

 

Unless you feel your have gotten your answer, could you please send me an e-mail? I am a controller in Denmark and I believe we could sort this out very easily by e-mail.

 

morten.jelle(at)vateud.net

[Richie Queally 1394209]

Doing something like that though is only really acceptable o fun it's coordinated with the next controller.

[Andreas Fuchs]

If the adjacent airspace is inactive you cannot coordinate and you just send them direct - in the past it has not been a problem. We are trying to provide a service to pilots and shortcuts on their routes are part of this service-concept.

[Andreas Dermitzakis 121021]

A direct routing can also be a separation tool therefore please have a second thought before rejecting such an instruction.