Long-time FSXer considering converting...

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Hey, all --

 

I've been pondering a switch from FSX to X-Plane for a while now. I've tinkered with the demo, found some things I didn't like, did some Googling, found ways to fix them, and I'm getting closer and closer to the point where I think I might make it a permanent move. The sim rig is currently at home downloading a ton of scenery to move me from demo to full installation.

 

But, I haven't played with the idea of trying it on VATSIM yet as I want to be sure I have a handle on what I would need first.

 

As I understand it, these things would be considered INDISPENSIBLE:

• 
  xSquawkBox (obviously)
  I read somewhere that I have to change the key to recall the text window from Tab to something else? True?
  Some plugin that allows xSquawkBox to generate an audio alert when a PM comes in?
  Some plugin that negates the reduction in sim rate when frame rate takes a hit?
  Some model set called "Bluebell" that's similar in scope to FLAi for vPilot?
  

 

Then these things would be considered HIGHLY RECOMMENDED:

• 
  Zibo mod 737?
  "Better Pushback"?
  Ortho scenery?
  

 

I don't need links to any of the above. I can find them. I just want to be sure I have everything I need.

 

Please let me know what I am missing as far as "REALLY SHOULDN'T EXPERIENCE X-PLANE ON VATSIM WITHOUT IT." I am **NOT** looking for payware aircraft or scenery recommendations as I do not have a ton of cash to drop on this project. Anything (a) freeware, (b) not too much of a performance hit, and © something that you would guess at least 75% of X-Plane users on VATSIM have (or should have) and I really might not have as good an expeirence without it -- that's what I want to make sure I have a complete list for. I will add in payware scenery and aircraft later down the road, if I decide to stick with it long term.

[Andreas Fuchs]

Hi Rob,

 

I switched from FS9 to XP11 in Spring this year.

 

XSB Message Sound: https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/23217-xsquawkbox-message-sound/

You may want to replace the sound that comes with the plugin with something louder, e.g. a similar file from vPilot or so.

 

XSB Selcal Alert: https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/35528-xselcal/

 

Your list is quite complete. I am NOT using that plugin that controls the reduction of SIM rate, because my computer is powerful enough - as long as you get 20+ FPS, you'll be fine without it, as far as I understand.

 

Get all of these Libraries: https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/90776-master-list-of-libraries/

It is a bit of work, but once you are done you should be fine for 95% of freeware addon scenery without the need to install further libraries. I'd say that the time invested is worth it.

 

Yes, I use the Zibo mod 737, it is really, really good. Better Pushback is also indispensable, IMO. I am not using any Ortho scenery - for IFR flights I do not care too much about enroute scenery, I am interested in detailed and correct airport sceneries.

 

Have fun and don't give up if things don't work as expected in the beginning. If you manage to get through that phase, you'll be able to enjoy a really, really cool SIM. As a real pilot I can tell you that.

[John Stockton]

I was with Microsoft from FS4 Through X. I started dabbling with X-Plane 8. I was sold at X-Plane 9. At this point I completely ditched Microsoft. Sad, Hundreds of dollars in add ons no longer used. I don't regret it.

 

FORGET everything you know about Microsoft's user interface/manipulators. REMEMBER how a plane flies. LEARN the X-Planes's interface/manipulators. Once comfortable I bet you too will ditch Microsoft.

[Andreas Fuchs]

I am with John - although XP11 has an option to use your FSX keyboard-layout for commands. I have NOT tried that one, but it may help you converting to the other faith

[Robert Shearman Jr]

I was with Microsoft from FS4 Through X. I started dabbling with X-Plane 8. I was sold at X-Plane 9. At this point I completely ditched Microsoft. Sad, Hundreds of dollars in add ons no longer used. I don't regret it.

 

FORGET everything you know about Microsoft's user interface/manipulators. REMEMBER how a plane flies. LEARN the X-Planes's interface/manipulators. Once comfortable I bet you too will ditch Microsoft.

John -- you, sir, are a prophet.

 

So much so that, as resistant as I have been to spending money to upgrade hardware, X-Plane has convinced me it would be money well spent.

 

I was sold when I spawned at my home airport of KMTN and saw, while taxiing to runway 15, a freight train rumbling down the tracks just northwest of the airport. I wasn't convinced at first that I was seeing it.

 

Unfortunately I was seeing it at about 15 FPS... lol. But, I'm pulling the trigger. Can't un-see it at this point. Nor can I un-feel the physics of the plane when the wing changes shape as flaps are deployed over the course of a second and a half. It was like going from SD to HD and then being told I had to go back to SD again. Oh the emptiness inside while I wait for my new PC to come... hah...

[John Stockton]

C'mon new computer.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

[Robert Shearman Jr]

I'm totally sold.

 

I'll probably hang onto FSX until I find a decent DC-3 and 747 for XP11 but I have a feeling most of my flying will be on X-Plane from here forward.

 

I did nix the framerate / speed utility thing, because (a) it was annoying and (b) there was no sense in trying to struggle along on a machine incapable of 25+ FPS sustained. The hardware upgrade I did was still pretty much on the cheap so I don't feel like I violated my principles TOO much.

 

I have NOT yet installed all of those scenery object libraries -- I'll download and install those piecemeal as I install sceneries with those dependencies listed. I've already gotten a couple that went with the one for KMSP.

 

However, I added to the "essentials" list: (a) AutoGate, and (b) will need to evaluate the different weather options and decide. I know there's a lot of back and forth about default weather versus X-Enviro versus some NOAA plug-in, and I'll do more research about what suits me best and will decide.

 

Notable from the stream link I posted:

 

(a) I figured out the camera definition issues, and even how to map those to my yoke buttons JUST like I have in the PMDG -- but better.

 

(b) I was going to say that "x-[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign" was also a necessity, but, it seems like XP11 already has built-in ability to keep separate control configs for different aircraft? So, that's done and I'm VERY pleased with the control [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignability and the ease of the overall control interface. MUCH easier than FSX and FSUIPC.

 

© I figured out how to change the Zibo 737's mapping of the takeoff announcement to the strobes, but something in the wing and wheelwell lights is triggering some dialogue still. I'll either figure out how to fix it, figure out how to modify my procedures to conform to it, or ignore it.

 

(d) nav data is no longer out of date.

 

(e) in the same vein as the freight train rolling past the 15 end of KMTN, I noticed along one of the highways as I was on final to KMSP that there was a police car speeding along within the traffic moving down there. Man, it's the little things. That was a VERY cool little detail to see.

 

If it's not clear, I'm happy with the move... I'll stop gushing now but I'm sure I'll have questions as I slowly but surely beef up my installation with scenery and planes.

[Christopher Collins]

• I read somewhere that I have to change the key to recall the text window from Tab to something else? True?

Yes - note the known issue on the website.

• Some plugin that negates the reduction in sim rate when frame rate takes a hit?

 

Do not use the autospeed plugin - fix your graphical detail settings so you never drop below 20fps.

 

If you're only getting one-off drops below 20fps below due to loading or other events, this is fine and you shouldn't need autospeed.

 

The issue is that too many people are not setting up properly and are flying with sustained framerates under 20fps in the terminal environment which is, pure and simply, misconfiguration of their sim.

 

• Some model set called "Bluebell" that's similar in scope to FLAi for vPilot?

 

*sigh*

 

I wish people would stop making that inaccurate comparison - XSB aircraft rendering in X-Plane is completely different to how FSX/P3D handle it - an XSB "CSL" is a complete aircraft model (or set of them) to be used with a native mapping to the VATSIM type/airline/livery code set. (Of course, this causes me no end of headaches when a model set, such as bluebell, ships with non-generic liveries in the no-airline slot - people blame model-matching when it's entirely the CSL set's fault - no, the FSX/P3D or external matching database is NOT the answer - why should you need another source of truth?).

 

This is m[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ively different to FSX/P3D, where existing simobject models are used, but need to be mapped onto the network type/ airline/livery codes. FLAi simply automates that mapping process using knowledge from various sources.

 

Out of the box, XSB has a very minimal CSL which is just enough for you to verify that it's working (This CSL set will be removed in 2.0 due to the loss of compatibility for it - I'm still trying to work out what to replace it with) - you absolutely need to download a third party CSL to flesh out that model set.

 

As a result, Bluebell and other CSLs are closer to things like the World of AI model sets and other world traffic model sets you might find for FSX/P3D - only they come with the model mapping data built in, and already optimized for VATSIM.

 

Whilst XSB does have support to do things the FSX/P3D way, it hasn't been used for years because it's *SLOW* and horribly limiting - .acf (flyable) models tend to be excessively detailed, they have to be loaded synchronously when the sim starts, and we can only ever load as many as you have multiplayer slots enabled. Part of the rationale behind how CSL was designed years ago was speed and to break that limitation - we can splat 50+ aircraft into the world fairly reliably.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

I'm not exactly sure what I did to earn that deep frustrated sigh, but, you went off on a lot of technical details that were way over my head.

 

I am speaking BROADLY about "Bluebell OBJ8 CSL packages 1.2.1" being basically an "expansion set" of models, published by a third party to both the simulator and the pilot client, which the pilot client can use to represent other players, moreso than what the simulator ships with out-of-the-(virtual)-box.

 

FLAi is basically an "expansion set" of models, published by a third party to both the simulator and the pilot client, which the pilot client can use to represent other players moreso than what the simulator ships with out-of-the-(virtual)-box.

 

Am I really that far off-base? Keep in mind that the X-Plane Manual contains precisely ZERO mentions of the term "CSL," and your manual says "XSquawkBox comes with a set of aircraft models that are used to draw other airplanes. You can install additional model sets. This will increase XSquawkBox's "vocabulary" of planes and allow it to show more accurate representations of the various aircraft." and then goes on to explain that they go in a subfolder called "CSL." If I've completely botched my understanding of this, please point me to where I should have read but missed.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Chris, in re-reading your message -- I think **YOU** might be the one misunderstanding FLAi.

 

FLAi is a set of "AI models" -- so, they're not flyable, but are indeed stripped-down, exterior-only models like what you describe as CSL. FLAi comes with an installer and a model-match rule-set, but, it VERY MUCH IS the collection of models intended for multiplayer representation that you seemed to be lecturing me about.

 

Not that any of this is on-topic, but, I was a bit put off by your frustrated sigh when I felt it was undeserved. I'm just trying to learn the ins-and-outs of a new product and looking for guidance. Didn't need your attitude. Hopefully the above clears up any misunderstanding.

[Christopher Collins]

Chris, in re-reading your message -- I think **YOU** might be the one misunderstanding FLAi.

 

FLAi is a set of "AI models" -- so, they're not flyable, but are indeed stripped-down, exterior-only models like what you describe as CSL. FLAi comes with an installer and a model-match rule-set, but, it VERY MUCH IS the collection of models intended for multiplayer representation that you seemed to be lecturing me about.

 

Fair - I'll pay that - I looked into FLAi superficially when it was announced, but failed to pick up on the fact it actually included stripped down simobjects, and was not just Yet Another Mapping tool. It doesn't help when half the announcement posts didn't actually spell this out (heck, the announcement posts didn't even spell out what FLAi did), and I don't have the time to fly on the network with all the sims anymore.

 

Not that any of this is on-topic, but, I was a bit put off by your frustrated sigh when I felt it was undeserved. I'm just trying to learn the ins-and-outs of a new product and looking for guidance. Didn't need your attitude. Hopefully the above clears up any misunderstanding.

 

I find it horribly offputting that I've invested quite a lot of effort into maintaining XSB, it's docomeentation, and the [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated xplanemp subsystem to have people ignore the docomeentation, ask FAQs constantly, ignore guidance material, don't even bother understanding what's going on.

 

For every publicly voiced piece of thanks, I cop easily significantly more demands for features for minorities, whinges about XSB's model matching, complaints about users who didn't read do their research for X-Plane or XSB, people for whom XSB isn't working the way they wanted and people whinging about how "nobody is updating XSB". In the vast majority of cases when things aren't working the way somebody expected, I look into it, and XSB is behaving technically correctly and I write a new FAQ or a part of the manual gets revised to prevent it from happening again. Then I see people still not reading the website or manual.

 

You earnt yourself a strike for the autospeed question (the answer was on the front page of the XSB website a little over a week before you posted your question), and I unfairly snapped over the model matching because of my own misunderstanding.

 

FLAi aside, FSD/P3D clients in general map SimObjects (simulator standard models - this includes both the "AI" models you mentioned, and flyables) to the VATSIM triplecode (Equipment, Airline & Livery) via a mapping table. Prior to FLAi or other all-inclusive tools, these either had to be generated with mapping tools (such as vPilot required), or adjusted by hand inside the client (FSInn).

 

The point I was really trying to emphasize, because it really is very poorly understood in general, is that the XSB/xplanemp "CSL" system directly works with VATSIM matching codes, and is exclusively specialized models only - we can't use flyable models through the same rendering path like FSX/P3D can (and vice versa - the XPlane AI system can't use CSL models). There is no mapping table. Direct comparisons to the components in the P3D/FSX model matching "solution" generally do not apply. FLAi is one of the few circomestances where the comparison is reasonable, but only because it includes all of the pieces that CSL effectively provides - most solutions I recall for Vpilot were not so "batteries included".

 

As for why autospeed is such a sore point as to annoy me - what you guys don't see behind the scenes is controllers har[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing me about it which I particularly resent because it's Not My Problem - so, yes, when I see people seeking or trying to peddle the wrong solution, I get snappy.