The workflow of a flight plan

[Craig Lister 1213875]

I'm trying to work out how a flightplan evolves, and what to submit in the flight plan and when to enter things into the FMC.

 

If you were doing a lengthy flight, would you be aware of the STAR at the arrival airport, prior to departing?

 

And do you as a pilot select the SID of your choice, or would that be dictated to you by ATC?

 

Do you have to file your flight plan with a STAR and SID? I'm just wondering what comes first. I'm guessing the flight plan is decided before you board? And maybe you modify the SID before you get clearance (Based on the latest weather)?

 

And then you get issued a STAR as you approach the destination?

 

So your FMC would have your first waypoint (?) as the first point of the route, and then last way point would be direct to the airport - and then you (somehow) inject the SID and STAR into the FMC as you become aware?

[Evan Reiter]

I'm trying to work out how a flightplan evolves, and what to submit in the flight plan and when to enter things into the FMC.

Hi Craig, these answers will vary quite differently based on where you are, and where you're going. I'll provide a North American perspective. I'm sure some other forum users will provide perspective on Europe and other parts of the world.

 

If you were doing a lengthy flight, would you be aware of the STAR at the arrival airport, prior to departing?

In North America, yes. Including for (some) flights going abroad, we file flight plans inclusive of the STAR at the arrival airport, prior to departing. That's not to say it couldn't change enroute, but the STAR is part of your route and therefore your initial clearance. As a result, in the U.S., there is no need to ask for clearance to fly a STAR. If it's in your flight plan, and you have an IFR clearance, you're good to go.

 

And do you as a pilot select the SID of your choice, or would that be dictated to you by ATC?

In North America, it's a mix of both. You can, and should, file a SID with your flight plan. However, if you don't file one and there is a SID expected, you will be [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned one. Similarly, if you file a SID that differs from the airport's standard procedure, is invalid for your aircraft type, etc., you can expect to be [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned a different one.

 

Do you have to file your flight plan with a STAR and SID? I'm just wondering what comes first. I'm guessing the flight plan is decided before you board? And maybe you modify the SID before you get clearance (Based on the latest weather)?

I always recommend that pilots file a flight plan (with SID and STAR), then listen to the ATIS, then get clearance. Between the ATIS and the clearance, you'll be given a departure runway (ATIS) and SID (clearance). In some North American countries, the departure runway is part of the IFR clearance. In the U.S., you will have to determine the departure runway from the ATIS, or by asking ATC. However, each airline does have its own procedures. In the U.S., you typically can only get clearance within 30 minutes of your proposed departure time. Some airlines' procedures call for building the entire flight plan in your FMC based on the flight planned route (again, including SID and STAR), then getting the clearance, then making any changes to the route.

 

So your FMC would have your first waypoint (?) as the first point of the route, and then last way point would be direct to the airport - and then you (somehow) inject the SID and STAR into the FMC as you become aware?

In the U.S., following my recommendation, after receiving clearance you will have a SID, your route, and a STAR. If there is a need for change, or if you haven't filed the STAR, then ATC should [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign one with plenty of time for you to make the FMC modification.

[Joaquin Blanco]

A while back, I was told off by an Italian Controller for showing my selected STAR on my flight plan for the arrival airport, he got rather agitated and told me this wasn't done in Italy and that the STAR would be advised by him after radio contact. Had never experienced this before except in Italy, however there may well be other countries who apply such rules.

[Trent Hopkinson]

A while back, I was told off by an Italian Controller for showing my selected STAR on my flight plan for the arrival airport, he got rather agitated and told me this wasn't done in Italy and that the STAR would be advised by him after radio contact. Had never experienced this before except in Italy, however there may well be other countries who apply such rules.

 

I'd say that rule applies in the following countries

1: Countries that aren't in North America.

[Andreas Fuchs]

German ATC expects you to file a STAR.

 

Then, again, many of our virtual pilots do not do it, no problem - we will [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign one and the thing will be done. No idea why that ATCO of Italy vACC got so excited about this, he shouldn't have: with Euroscope it is literally one click to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign an(other) STAR, pronto!

[Sebastien Bartosz]

We file SIDs/STARs in/out of Europe in real life.

[Joshua Jenkins]

In Canada we file a STAR and the SID will be [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned by ATC.

[eric cohen 1434005]

i use little navmap to create a flight plan and its entered into fmc with sids and stars. will that change with vatsim. i'll them where i'm departing from and where my arrival airport is and atc will give me sid and waypoints and stars for n/america? is that correct?

thanks.

[Evan Reiter]

Not sure I fully understand the question, but in terms of finding a route/waypoints, my recommendation is to look at FlightAware (https://flightaware.com/statistics/ifr-route/) and search for a route. This will give you all the real-world flights' routes between a given citypair, and is probably what ATC would give you anyway.

[Andreas Fuchs]

Yes, you need to make a difference between finding a correct and realistic flightplan route and using it to navigate. For North America, use FlightAware https://de.flightaware.com/analysis/route.rvt or Skyvector https://skyvector.com/ . They both pull their data from the same source.

 

Then copy your chosen flightplan route into Little Nav Map and use it there to make your aircraft follow that route.

[Joshua Jenkins]

Another great resource is Simbrief. They also compile real world routes (as long as you have the correct airac cycle on Navigraph) and give you a full OFP package with wx charts and fuel planning, etc. I personally copy and paste routes from flightaware when selecting my route on Simbrief so I get a real-world route and a dispatch package

Josh

[Harry Sugden]

Another great resource is Simbrief. They also compile real world routes (as long as you have the correct airac cycle on Navigraph) and give you a full OFP package with wx charts and fuel planning, etc. I personally copy and paste routes from flightaware when selecting my route on Simbrief so I get a real-world route and a dispatch package

Josh

 

Also important that routes found with a certain AIRAC (ideally the most recent one of course!) are flown with a navigation system using the same AIRAC, or you might run into issues.

 

Note that European routes don’t appear on flightaware (in any useful form) as far as I know - at least in my experience, those with flightaware routes flying from the UK to the US will have virtually no airways/waypoints until the Atlantic/US (leaving me as a London controller to try and explain this and find a route halfway across the world!)

 

e.g. BA177 LHR-JFK flightaware “5300N/02000W 5100N/03000W 4800N/04000W 4500N/05000W RAFIN N84A BRADD PLYMM PARCH3” - missing the route from LHR to London FIR boundary and then through Shannon.

 

Try edi-gla.co.uk for real world flight plans - you can also request if you know a little advance what you’d like to fly!

 

Regarding SIDs and STARs in the UK... UK controllers will always issue/confirm the SID in the clearance, and in cases where the SID name changes depending on the runway should make the difference to your filed route clear. If you know or expect a STAR for your arrival, on first contact with London Control, you should report it (and fly it!) - if it’s wrong or needs changing, London will do so. Main issue is arrivals from the East into Heathrow filing routes terminating at LAM - they should end at LOGAN to join the LAM3A usually! The UK has its quirks!!