Controller instructions

[Steven Messina 1430047]

I am a bit confused, tonight I was at EGMD I asked the controller for IFR clearance and he did not give it to me until I taxied to the HS of the runway. It was London CTR handling clearance so I'm [Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming he wasn't controlling airspace yet he controlled airfield. Is this normal UK procedure to receive instructions at runway vs at gate/FBO? Also is there a way to determine who is anyone controls the airport/airspace at a particular area in UK? In US it's straight forward to me. Thank you

[Trevor Hannant]

Hi Steven.

 

It's perfectly normal at UK airfields without SIDs to get an IFR clearance at the hold, or on taxi towards it. Exeter (EGTE) is another example where an aircraft will be given taxi instructions then the local controller obtains clearance from London Control for airways joining etc.

 

Some airfields, e.g. Aberdeen and Belfast, do give the clearance on stand but with separate after departure instructions on the way to/at the hold.

 

Hope this helps

[Andreas Fuchs]

Just adding to Trevor's reply: this happens at quite a few airfields. The reason is that local ATC has to request your clearance from the overlying Area Control Center and they will send it through electronically or by telephone before local ATC can relay it to you. Don't you prefer starting to move while local ATC is organizing your clearance? Less waste of time.

[Steven Messina 1430047]

Thanks Trevor and Andreas for the information and perspective. Andreas regarding your question, in US ATC, clearance is quick and I'd prefer to input flight plan into computer while at FBO/gate. Less chance for error and more realistic practice for when I fly my 172. If I have to input flight plan at run up on runway, too much of a rush

[Trevor Hannant]

You don't need to input your flight plan during taxi, you should still file ahead of requesting push and/or start. You just won't get your clearance until later.

[Randy Tyndall 1087023]

You don't need to input your flight plan during taxi, you should still file ahead of requesting push and/or start. You just won't get your clearance until later.

 

Unless, of course, the controller has an amendment or change or different DP than the one the pilot sitting at the HS line was expecting or filed...ah, but that never happens...right?

 

But if it were to happen, can you just imagine all the fuss those behind said pilot in line might put forth? And one person in a two or three person cockpit can get a little stressed making all those changes, especially if they filed with the intent on using the default GPS. That is a joy to "reprogram"

 

Randy

[Andreas Fuchs]

Yeah, but with a bit of experience you'll get a good idea of what to expect. I make my living as a pilot and in 90% of cases we insert the expected SID after we've copied the ATIS or the runway in use by local ATC. Sometimes our guess was wrong, but it mostly works.

[Magnus Meese]

Yeah, but you guys cheat. You have hundreds of hours of training, and you're even two guys in there!

[Simon Kelsey]

Let's be clear though -- we're not talking about Heathrow here.

 

Anywhere with significant levels of traffic generally operates a 'free-flow' agreement (subject to some restrictions in terms of departure intervals which the enroute sectors might put on) and clearance is given at the stand.

 

It's only smaller airfields, generally those located outside controlled airspace, where a 'release' needs to be obtained from the area or radar controller, and as the terms of this are going to be based on the actual traffic situation at the time it makes sense to do this when the aircraft is nearly ready to depart rather than perhaps 20 minutes earlier before pushback, during which time the traffic situation might have totally changed and therefore a different routing may be required.

 

This applies even more so to VFR aircraft leaving a control zone where, again, the terms of the release will be dictated by the traffic situation at the time and so the departure instructions are p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed at the hold.

 

If it takes a minute or two to reprogram the box, what's the big deal in spending a minute or two doing that at the hold with the parking brake set vs on the gate with the parking brake set? There's no m[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ive rush and, as I say, even if for some reason you did have 10 aircraft behind you at Lydd they're all going to be in the same situation!