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VATUSA Academy Brochure Announcement


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It's all about quantity versus quality. I’d love more than anything to see five or so graduates leave the Academy every week, but I’m not going to risk lowering the standards of the Academy or even the USA Division to see that it happens.

 

At some point doesn't quantity become an issue?

 

Richard,

 

I'm sorry, but this is one time that I have to agree with Jason. Do you want controllers that don't know the first thing about controlling? I don't and if I ever become ATM/DATM that will be one of my first priorities. To have quality controllers. With that being said, I do understand your point, and it's a valid point, it would be nice to get more controllers out there, but I think they're doing all they can. Just like running an elementary school, thinks don't happen overnight.

 

Cheers!

 

SATCO/VATSIM has been training controllers just fine for years. Supervisors have been enforcing position restrictions for various ARTCCs just fine as well. Pilots prefer to fly in the well staffed ARTCCs. The Academy sounds like a great program for those places on VATUSA that aren't that well established. Anchorage namely, and a few others. The academy is a great supplement, but I do not believe it should be mandatory. Rather available for those hardcore dedicated controllers. Kind of like Steve's Flight School http://stevesflightschool.com/

 

It's a hobby. People don't want to deal with this controller academy, and not being able to control where they want. I was talking to three guys flying around Midway airport the other day, they said they'd like to start controlling but they don't want to get involved in some program with mandatory this or thats. It's too complicated for them. I would bet there might be 2 or 3 guys out of 10 who would want to do this academy thing, and then out of the guys who "graduate" maybe some of them will take their [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned ARTCCs if they don't get their first pick. I know I wouldn't be interested, personally, in any place but ZAU & ZLA.

 

/babble

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Richard,

 

I'm sorry, but this is one time that I have to agree with Jason. Do you want controllers that don't know the first thing about controlling? I don't and if I ever become ATM/DATM that will be one of my first priorities. To have quality controllers. With that being said, I do understand your point, and it's a valid point, it would be nice to get more controllers out there, but I think they're doing all they can. Just like running an elementary school, thinks don't happen overnight.

 

Cheers!

 

My concern is that VATUSA must replace the controllers it loses. VATSIM is kind of like a business with employee turnover and those employees have to be replaced. Controllers leave the hobby, change sides of the scope, or just become involved in other activities. We see it all the time in the stats. So if we lose five controllers in a month and only replace two of them, then we have a problem. I happen to feel that we should be able to replace those controllers and maintain a sufficient quality.

Richard Jenkins

richard(a)vatsim.net

"It's all fun and games until the cops show up."

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So are students getting their requested ARTCCs or is VATUSA filling a quota for each facility, at times sending graduates to a facility they did not wish to work in the first place?

 

An honest answer would be nice. We don't need to be sugar-coating everything for the new individuals coming to VATUSA in this day and age.

 

Well allow me to do the honors in the hopes it will cease the rumors that VATUSA isn't allowing a graduate to select their own ARTCC. For the ATM and TA Staff who have heard this a hundred times already, I apologize in advance. When the student completes all the requirements they will select up to three ARTCC'S that they'd like to join with number one being their top choice. For the three choices selected, I pull up and review the training report submitted by the TA of the ARTCC to ensure the facility isn't already strectched out or overburdened with students. To go a little further here I'm looking at the student to mentor or student to instructor ratio. I do this because the last thing I want is to send a student to an ARTCC that he chooses just to have him "sit" there for a couple of weeks awaiting training. It isn't fair to the student and it isn't fair to the ARTCC to continue to overburden them with more bodies. Many of the ATM'S are now including the number of students they're able to accept, which makes this process a whole lot easier on me. So I start at the number one choice and if that ARTCC is able to take on another student, I finalize the request and the transfer is complete. If the number one choice cannot accommodate, then I move on to number two, and so on. We've had seven graduates and I'm happy to say all seven were sent to their number one choice.

 

So VATUSA is not out to fill a quota. We do let the graduates choose, but VATUSA does have the final say and hopefully after reading my post you now know and understand why.

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My concern is that VATUSA must replace the controllers it loses. VATSIM is kind of like a business with employee turnover and those employees have to be replaced. Controllers leave the hobby, change sides of the scope, or just become involved in other activities. We see it all the time in the stats. So if we lose five controllers in a month and only replace two of them, then we have a problem. I happen to feel that we should be able to replace those controllers and maintain a sufficient quality.

 

Bingo.

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The training requirements are not that extensive I mean we're only talking a few lesson reviews within each of the three stages. The material taught is no different than the material that is taught at the 22 ARTCC'S for those students wishing to earn the rating of S3, minus the local procedures of course. I think everyone needs to take a moment and look at the big picture here. The Academy sees students from all walks of life. We see some that are really committed and are able to breeze through the material without a second glance. For others it takes a little while longer. And then you have those students that aren't as committed and only work with their teacher when it's convenient for them. We've had a ton of students that will work a lesson and then not be able to work another lesson for another 3 to 4 weeks because of something preventing them from being online. Then there's the occasional student who has been recommended for a stage check (what the Academy refers to as an OTS) and never responds to an examiner's email to schedule a time. I get asked all the time why it takes a while for some students to graduate...well it's for reasons just as those. The faculty can only do as much as the student is willing to put into their training. I cannot require each student that enrolls into the Academy to stay active and to ensure they graduate within a few weeks. This is a hobby. All I can do is require that each student who wishes to control within VATUSA enroll and successfully complete the requirements. And as the brochure states, there is no byp[Mod - Happy Thoughts] system in place.

 

As I mentioned in an earlier post we will be changing the way the curriculum is taught, most likely within the next week so as to allow students to graduate in no less than 2 weeks. But we will not be changing what is taught. Those students who have graduated have received high praise from their ARTCC Staff on their knowledge of working Delivery thru Tower. And you can ask any one of those graduates or any of the students currently enrolled...we're not asking too much from them, nor are we asking them to know things above what a future S3 should know. I do hope that people will one day realize this and quit pointing the finger at the curriculum requirements and at those members who work very hard to instruct it.

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You know the answer Josh. It was answered in the ZLA forum, and I KNOW you read that thread.

 

Actually Craig, I didn't. Not until this morning after work. Good looking out though.

 

Jason - Thank you for the type of indepth response I have been seeking for these types of questions.

CMEL.CSEL.IA.AGI.CFI.CFII.MEI.CRJ2.FO.Furloughed

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Honestly going back to the original topic I do have a question.

 

What exactly again is the point of a brochure? What purpous exactly will it serve? Is Jeff Turner going to drive all across the US to everyones house and stick a copy in their mailboxes? I think not.

 

My personal opinion, a waste of valuable time.

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Honestly going back to the original topic I do have a question.

 

What exactly again is the point of a brochure? What purpous exactly will it serve? Is Jeff Turner going to drive all across the US to everyones house and stick a copy in their mailboxes? I think not.

 

My personal opinion, a waste of valuable time.

 

Since the brochure has already been designed and the time "wasted" (your words), why even ask? Not all of us like to sit in front of a computer and read straight from the screen. Sometimes it's nice to print and read something of interest. Since a lot of the controllers are of school age, what would be wrong with members printing a few and handing them out to friends and family? Many people on the outside are aware of Flight Simulator, but I would venture to guess that lee than half of them are aware of VATSIM. The brochure is not only information on the academy, but can be used for geneal advertising purposes as well.

 

So although you believe it was a waste of valuable time, I see it as an investment towards the future growth of VATSIM.

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Honestly going back to the original topic I do have a question.

 

What exactly again is the point of a brochure? What purpous exactly will it serve? Is Jeff Turner going to drive all across the US to everyones house and stick a copy in their mailboxes? I think not.

 

My personal opinion, a waste of valuable time.

 

It's not wasted time, someone had fun doing it! Just like the guy who repaints a POSKY 757 in American Airlines colors for the 100th time. May seem dumb to you but it's something they like to do, looks good, and is fun!

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Honestly going back to the original topic I do have a question.

 

What exactly again is the point of a brochure? What purpous exactly will it serve? Is Jeff Turner going to drive all across the US to everyones house and stick a copy in their mailboxes? I think not.

 

My personal opinion, a waste of valuable time.

 

What would you have done with that "valuable time"? That comment was just pointless.

Let it be.

San Juan CERAP

Training Administrator

Christopher McGee

http://sanjuan.vatcar.org/

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Now Hiring Controllers, Ask Me How!

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Repainting an aircraft for flight sim and creating a brochure for a virtual organization are two different things, same league, but two different things. That "valuable time" could have been used to help the academy actually get on its feet and rolling. It seems with the shortage of instructors over there that they are only getting a fraction of what they really should be getting done, done.

 

Still I ask again, what purpous exactly does this serve? I can honestly say handing this brochure out at my high school isn't going to get me any free p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] to the "cool" table. Imagine yourself handing this brochure out to seniors in a crowded lunch room, those of which have no interest in aviation and are completely ignorant towards anything aviation related...if anything, you'd simply get an akward silence.

 

Yes, you all are correct in that it has already been done, but I still don't see the point in why it was done.

 

My post was not "pointless".

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It's not just professional, it is extremely professional. In fact it looks absolutely fabulous, and a lot of good art-handiwork went into it obviously. It would expect to see something like that in school counseling offices and such.

 

But: my point is when is it too professional? When is it too much like a real-world college, whether it's in the curriculum or only on the outside appearance?

 

I think the brochure is over-the-top for what we are doing here....but that's just my thoughts. Nothing angry or aggressive about it...if you guys love it, then awesome.

Steve Ogrodowski

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Boy, I have to say I think I didn't contribute to the downward trend of this thread.

 

Nevertheless, the brochure looks good. Rather or not it will serve a point is in the eyes of the beholder. It's flashy, and does just the right amount of advertising.

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Still I ask again, what purpous exactly does this serve? I can honestly say handing this brochure out at my high school isn't going to get me any free p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] to the "cool" table. Imagine yourself handing this brochure out to seniors in a crowded lunch room, those of which have no interest in aviation and are completely ignorant towards anything aviation related...if anything, you'd simply get an akward silence.

 

Yes, you all are correct in that it has already been done, but I still don't see the point in why it was done.

 

My post was not "pointless".

 

Well..maybe you should go to a teacher and see if it's possible to start a Virtual Aviation Club. If VATSIM had representives in a fraction of the schools it would increase the population of pilots and controllers by leaps and bounds.

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Who cares what the point of the brochure was? If it was fun to make, and helps the VATSIM community to see that the Academy staff is serious about the project, then that should be enough.

 

Perhaps the people complaining about the time allegedly "wasted" on the brochure should stop wasting their time complaining in the forums and go fly or control on VATSIM instead.

Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy

Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC

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Perhaps the notion on whether this Brochure is of any value depends upon your overall perception of what VATSIM is. Many of us see VATSIM as a static environment. We have new members joining all the time but the overall online use of the network remains fairly static. When an ARTCC draws in more pilots to their airspace the fact remains that they are pulling them from another. VATSIM can almost be considered as an esoteric fraternity. We do not actively solicit for new members and for the most part we are blissful in our own little online world. We have one major competitor offering similar service with members who also enjoy their own online world. We have not need to do outside advertising. Word of mouth and the occasional mentioning of VATSIM on the Flight Sim webs keeps our stat quos.

 

Many of us now see that we need to draw more people into our hobby. I recently took over the ATM position at Anchorage. For the past several months I’ve all but offered monetary bribes attempting to secure some active controllers. My problem is that most controllers are happy where they are. If they do decide to transfer, well, unfortunately Anchorage is often at the bottom of their list. Now if I come up with some magical program that draws in some controllers to Anchorage the fact still remains that I am stealing them from someone else. Perhaps one day we will see all of the Centers with huge rosters and caps placed on membership. You would have to wait in line for a position to open up in your CTR of choice and in the meantime you would be stuck with me up in Anchorage.

 

In recent months beginning with the VATUSA convention and the recent convention in Texas we have started reaching out to the Flight Sim community. During the VATUSA convention I had contact with at least 15 people interested in our online community. (Sure wish I had some brochures to hand out). Twice a month I visit my local internet café’ and do some controlling. I always have a group of guys standing behind me asking question about the software and how to join. I would hand out a VATSIM / VATUSA brochure I made up. At this time there are 3 members in the academy as the result of my small membership campaign. As graduation nears they will probably request ZLA as their first choice in which case I will most likely key their cars.

 

One of the reasons the Academy was created was to provide a structured and consistent avenue for new members to get the training they needed in their formative months on the network. The process to become a controller has been reduced from a complex and often frustrating process to simply click here to join. This has reduced the attrition of new controllers and conversely, is weeding out new members that find out that controlling is just not for them. Enticing more people to join our hobby sometimes requires some eye candy. A brochure is a tangible item in our virtual world and provides people with an impression that our organization is of substance and accomplished.

Ric Ruminski I1

VATUSA11

Communications Manager VATUSA

email: VATUSA11 (at) vatusa.net

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Perhaps the notion on whether this Brochure is of any value depends upon your overall perception of what VATSIM is. Many of us see VATSIM as a static environment. We have new members joining all the time but the overall online use of the network remains fairly static. When an ARTCC draws in more pilots to their airspace the fact remains that they are pulling them from another. VATSIM can almost be considered as an esoteric fraternity. We do not actively solicit for new members and for the most part we are blissful in our own little online world. We have one major competitor offering similar service with members who also enjoy their own online world. We have not need to do outside advertising. Word of mouth and the occasional mentioning of VATSIM on the Flight Sim webs keeps our stat quos.

 

Many of us now see that we need to draw more people into our hobby. I recently took over the ATM position at Anchorage. For the past several months I’ve all but offered monetary bribes attempting to secure some active controllers. My problem is that most controllers are happy where they are. If they do decide to transfer, well, unfortunately Anchorage is often at the bottom of their list. Now if I come up with some magical program that draws in some controllers to Anchorage the fact still remains that I am stealing them from someone else. Perhaps one day we will see all of the Centers with huge rosters and caps placed on membership. You would have to wait in line for a position to open up in your CTR of choice and in the meantime you would be stuck with me up in Anchorage.

 

In recent months beginning with the VATUSA convention and the recent convention in Texas we have started reaching out to the Flight Sim community. During the VATUSA convention I had contact with at least 15 people interested in our online community. (Sure wish I had some brochures to hand out). Twice a month I visit my local internet café’ and do some controlling. I always have a group of guys standing behind me asking question about the software and how to join. I would hand out a VATSIM / VATUSA brochure I made up. At this time there are 3 members in the academy as the result of my small membership campaign. As graduation nears they will probably request ZLA as their first choice in which case I will most likely key their cars.

 

One of the reasons the Academy was created was to provide a structured and consistent avenue for new members to get the training they needed in their formative months on the network. The process to become a controller has been reduced from a complex and often frustrating process to simply click here to join. This has reduced the attrition of new controllers and conversely, is weeding out new members that find out that controlling is just not for them. Enticing more people to join our hobby sometimes requires some eye candy. A brochure is a tangible item in our virtual world and provides people with an impression that our organization is of substance and accomplished.

 

Thanks for your post! It was very refreashing to me

Tommy Rogers, C-3

971040

ZMA Controller

Vatsim Supervisor

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I think the "wasted time" of making the brochure shows Anthony's, Jason's and VATUSA's dedication to providing a quality product to the newest controllers. Would you of perferred that they made it all in stick figures?

 

A rough comparison....

 

It is my job as an ATM to make sure Houston is shown in the most positive light possible. Some means to accomplish that goal...

 

Have the best trained controllers possible.

Hold quality events.

Attempt to have our ARTCC staffed as much as is feasible.

Have a presentable website, information for both pilots and controllers.

 

So, it's my job to either do that myself, or delegate within the ARTCC to accomplish these various goals. If Anthony wanted to tackle the brochure himself, that's his choice. He has staff mentors and instructors to do the other work of the academy. Seeing my point yet?

 

If you are that concerned that the academy is not able to keep up with the student load, then step up to the plate and volunteer. Personally, once I get a couple of projects done here in ZHU I'll be there myself. I like the idea and the finished product(s) of the academy, and think that it's the best idea that I have seen come across this network in my short time here.

 

It's sad to see that when people, especially at the VATUSA/VATSIM level, come up with an innovative idea, that all they do is catch hell for it. I'm glad that Jason and Anthony are motivated enough to rise above this critizisim, and march on.

 

Personally, I had a couple of concerns about when the academy first started, but I spoke with Jason personally, did not attack him or the program on a public forum, and we have come to a compromise that is acceptable to both parties. There was never a need to air it publically and by avoiding that route, our "negoiations" were that much smoother.

 

Yall have the right to your opinion, and I'm expressing mine that I disagree with your preception that it is "wasting time"

 

Good Day

Matthew Temple

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I am a student currently going through the Academy. After reading the other posts in the thread, I felt compelled to post this reply. I am fairly new to the VATSIM network, and I enjoyed the flying experience and the interaction with "real" controllers. I noticed however that many times when I was flying there were many ARTCCs that were not staffed, and I would be on UNICOM. I frequently chat with other pilots and controllers in the context of the virtual airline that I fly for. I decided that one way I could possibly get even more enjoyment out of this hobby was to give controlling a try. So I started the process, and so far have enjoyed the experience of learning even more about avaiation from the ATC perspective. I like having the information there and the capability to review and study the materials at my leisure. Having the practical application sessions with my mentor on SWEATBOX helps to firm the information in my mind and understand how it applies to actual usage.

 

I know by now everyone is probably wondering what the point is, so here it is. This is a HOBBY! I think sometimes people get caught up in things and forget to have fun. Everyone has their own forms of enjoyment and fullfillment, and if I liked to make brochures (and if I had the talent), I would do so. I appreciate the time that all of those concerened have put into the Academy and the training materials and I believe that this is one of the best communities surrounding a virtual world.

 

One of the reasons that I am attracted to ZLA doesn't come from a website or a brochure or a speech. It comes from loading up VRC as an observer ro doing traffic patterns at LAX. The controllers their seem to "know their stuff", but at the same time, they seem to have fun, and enjoy what they are doing. That's something that I want to be a part of. ZID is on my list for the same reason. One of the funniest things I have experienced in my short time online came one night in ZID space, when I heard the controller giving instructions to a pilot that had just landed.

 

" Turn right at the next street and then a left to get back to the airport.". The picture in my mind of a pilot who had just ended up in someone's back yard rather than at a taxiway off the runway (as I myself have done many times) kept me laughing for a while. The important part was the way the controller handled this situation with understanding and humor.

 

So those of you wondering about filling your rosters, will hopefully understand, that my point is at least some of the people do this because they want to enjoy flying and controlling and to have a little fun away time from the real world.

 

Keep up the good work VATUSA and especially Academy staff.

Michael C[Mod - Happy Thoughts]idy (970816)

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Any good that the brochure might have done seems to have been negated by anyone reading this thread. If I were impressed by the brochure but continued reading this thread, I would probably have lost interest in the academy.

 

In the past few weeks I have heard things like:

Don't bother with the academy. It's a waste of time.

Anything you learn in the academy you may as well forget before starting in an ARTCC.

I was opposed to the academy in the first place. What's wrong with the old way?

 

If you don't want to help, move out of the way so the help can get where it's needed. Anyone can stand by and throw rocks.

"Just cause I'm southern don't mean I aint got no book learnin' "

 

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I just recently graduated from the Academy a week ago Friday and would like to dispel alot of the rumors as well as enlighten us more on what the Academy had to offer:

 

1) The only thing I knew about ATC is the directions I heard while flying. Basically it was like "Repeat what you hear, obey what is said, and everything is cream cheese". But after joining the Academy, I learned there is just so much more to ATC than what I originally thought. Like Clearance Delivery....who would have thought there would be so many things to check before actually giving an aircraft that hasn't even pushed back the clearance to its final destination. So there is the opportunity for those who know nothing about ATC period (online or real world) to gain an understanding not just to control but it will help you in flying as well.

 

2) The brochure.....like others have said....if Anthony wanted to hand paint the brochure...its his choice and his time. And a testament to his time....he was the one who volunteered his precious time to giving me my ground stage check. Now if he did that for me (one student out of a number) what is to say he isn't doing that for other students as well? The poster who is griping about the time wasted....how do you know Anthony and Jason are not putting their all into this academy just because they drew up a brochure that may help answer questions to prospective controllers without having to reply to 100+ emails about the same doggone questions. Its common sense man.

 

3) Jason Sutton and Anthony Santanastaso take this hobby very seriously and with a great p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ion for teaching others. They challenged me in each of my stage checks (also Matthew as well) to make sure, even especially sure, that I knew the material and that they felt comfortable with how I was grasping the material. The Academy is not a walk in the park by any means, especially when Anthony or Jason is giving you a stage check.

 

4) The lab and lecture idea.....with a limited amount of instructors willing to give of their own time and a large amount of students, it is ridculously not feasible to expect those instructors to maintain a real world lifestyle and train these students as well. So for them to establish cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]es at set dates and times allows them to set their personal schedules to teach, train and certify students more efficiently and also places more responsibility on the student to show up for these cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]es if they want to graduate or not. Put yourself in the position of a student in college...do you think the organization is going to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign you a personal teacher when there are others in the organization that are taking the same cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]? Again...common sense, people.

 

5) The ARTCC rumor...let me put it to rest.....I picked three ARTCCs (and I can post my email to Jason Sutton if you would like me to) and I was [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned to the first one I chose. There is no favoritism. They try to accomodate the student as much as possible but like Jason said, why burden a ARTCC who is already over burdened with other controllers needing advancement and just allowing a new graduate to sit and wait? They have just went through the Academy and are anxious, like myself, to get out on VATSIM and start controlling aircraft!!!

 

Finally, I want to end my rant like this.....if Jason and Anthony deserve anything, they deserve a pat on the back, a round of applause, a kudo, a day off, and the ability to require instructors who don't know the first thing about the Academy to serve through one cycle before p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing judgment on it. Like everything else that is new, there are going to be growing pains. But through dedication, common sense, and reevaluation, tweaks can be made to make it better. Let me sum this statement up in defense of some of the ARTCCs though......it may be a good idea to have a fast track area in the Academy, like a review (sort of like what ARTCCs have for visiting controllers) for any student that has verifiable real world experience and/or can take a pretest/stage check and p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] it and then get them out to an ARTCC. It would take a big responsibility off of the instructors, allow only those students who really need the Academy to go through it, and still meet the training quality and standard that VATUSA is trying to achieve.

 

My offer still stands to Jason and Anthony....once I reach INS status in my ARTCC, as long as I can get permission from the ATM, I will be there as an instructor if you wish me to.

 

My two cents...take em and spend em if you want to....

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Jason and Tony ,

 

 

I have to tell you how incredibly impressed that I was on Thursday evening… Just for the 2 lectures going on… ATC101 and ATC103, there are 23 people total in them… VERY COOL stuff… Make me SO proud to see this…

 

When 102 started an hour later, it went up to 34 people, including the second ATC101 cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]… Cornell and David did a GREAT job!!! I can't wait to see what tonights holds...

 

You guys exceeded the expectation for sure… I can’t thank you enough…… I post here to let people know how much of a difference the academy is going to make for the controllers coming out…

 

I can remember one other BIG time that I felt this proud and that was at the VATUSA convention when the fly in was going on and all of us were together as a family controlling… Truly a neat thing… Makes me so proud to be a part of this and glad that you are a part of something this special for this hobby.

 

Leading the way… VATUSA!!!

Jeff "JU" Turner

US Army Retired

http://www.skyblueradio.com

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