Canadian Routes Database

[Daryl Shuttleworth 810763]

Hey hey fellow Canadians/Canuckleheads - perhaps this new forum will be a little more lively than the newsgroup was.

 

Anyhow, to get things started: wouldn't it be nice/helpful to have a central location for ALL CANADIAN preferred routes for pilots/controllers to use? One that is UP TO DATE?

 

How many of us - like me - spend at least ten minutes (or more) trying to track down a route?

 

How can we accomplish this?

[Greg Phelan 810114]

The current VATUSA Flight Planner (http://www.eleventhstreet.com/fb2/showplans.aspx) is being used by ZVR, ZEG, and ZYZ. It is still in development, and I have been told that the name will be changed to something more inclusive by the time it is finished.

[Daryl Shuttleworth 810763]

Yes, I use the Elchitz planner Greg, but I was speaking more from a CANADIAN perspective. Perhaps I should start [Mod - Happy Thoughts]embling with Ian, and see what we can all do to get something definitive in place.

[Michael Krause 810881]

Hi to Canada!

 

Perhaps you should have a look at the SAG-FlightPlanCenter.

At the moment there are only Routes to and from airports in Switzerland, Austria and Germany in it but it has an open concept and can be used for every country. The user even has the possibility to put different aircraft profiles into his hangar and can directly file his flightplan online through the VATSIM-form.

 

A new version is currently under development which will be connected to the european pilot- and atc-booking and this version will propably be able to handle NAT-Routes as well (since they change too often those routes are excluded at the moment). Thanks to the Eurocontrol online validator we even can [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ure that the routings in the database would be valid in real aviation as well!!

 

So perhaps you should get in contact with the developers to create a worldwide version of this FPC... Check it out!

 

http://fpc.vacc-sag.org

 

Greets from Germany!

Micha

[Daniel Ertl 898258]

Hi,

I recommend the FPC too, because after landing I need only 2 Minutes to prefile my new flightplan

 

Ciao

Daniel

[Greg Phelan 810114]

Honestly, I don't see any major advantages to the SAG flightplanner over the VATUSA (and will have a more international name at some point) flightplanner. Once you have a route saved (decent if you fly the same route over and over and over again), it cuts off maybe, maybe a minute over using the VATUSA system. I can't speak as to any route validator things, I can't see myself using that feature.

 

The VATUSA system is really VATUSA only in name - and as the usage grows, more and more routes will be added. I'm not looking for a Canada-only solution to flight-planning - that won't help us get traffic, nor will it help us provide a better service.

[Dave Weese 817228]

Maybe the 2 should get together and maybe come up with a Vatsim Router data base

 

Just an Idea, the CZYZ routes should be in place in the next month, I'm working on them now, about 300 routes. in and out of CZYZ airports

[Michael Krause 810881]

Hi Greg!

 

The reason why I suggested to have a look wasn't because I think the FPC is the best possible solution but because I think those people creating or adopting a route database should know about eachother and work together. Why invent the wheel twice? Every system has it's advantages and it's problems.

 

The normal pilot doesn't see the validator thing at all that's just for admins to speed up the creation of new routes and the revalidation of old routes (in europe there are quite often changes in the ATS routes/airways and many restrictions, so we recheck every route every two AIRACs). So this thing may not be necessary from pilot's point of view but it makes it much easier for the admins.

 

Maybe there should be one large route database on a fixed standart format but with different admin tools so each region has the tools at hand it needs...

 

Greets

Micha

 

EDIT: Dave was faster than me...

[Phillip Elchitz 815199]

Fellow Canadians,

 

The route planner by the one who's last name is the same as mine is the way to go. It is becoming more and more popular with users in North America and can become an excellent marketing tool for us. In order to make it work the FIRs have to make a commitment to keep it updated and add as many routes as they possibly can. This includes making up routes into the US.

 

Once complete (all of the CFS flight plans in at the least) more and more pilots will fly into our skies as they will easily understand the routings. I am talking about pilots that usually fly in the US only and use the Route planner on a regular basis. They will see routes into Canadian airports from their home airports and fly them.

 

My two cents.

 

Phillip E

[Eric Fortin 832458]

Hi

 

The Montreal FIR create a service of flight planner for the pilot flying with them (see: http://bathursted.ccnb.nb.ca/vatcan/fir/montreal/Francais/Pilote/CZUL%20-%20Page%20pilote%20(new)%20.htm). This page is presently in French but it can give an idea of another service offer to pilot.

 

-----------------------------

Eric Fortin

VATCAN2

[Ian Elchitz 810151]

Yes, I use the Elchitz planner Greg, but I was speaking more from a CANADIAN perspective. Perhaps I should start [Mod - Happy Thoughts]embling with Ian, and see what we can all do to get something definitive in place.

 

I'm not sure what has to be done to the planner to make it a Canadian perspective aside from changing the name - which is not written in stone.

 

The responsibility of getting the canadian routes in there is up to the FIRs who join the program. So far we have Vancouver, Edmonton, an recently Vancouver totalling about 800 routes out of 7500 in the database.

 

Daryl - if you are interested in putting all of the data from the CAP (or whatever the geomatics publication is that has all of the preferred routes in Canada) then I could set you up.

 

I built the system with both Canada and the US in mind. I spend a lot of time as a pilot just like many of you and the most frustrating thing is finding the PREFERRED route. This isn't just a database full of routes copied out of the FAA/NavCanada booklets - it's a set of preferred routes for flying on VATSIM. Created and maintained by the actual FIR/ARTCC that use them.

 

Someone from the Montreal FIR contacted me soon after this thread was started asking ME to enter the routes for the Montreal FIR. That's the thing about this - it's not my responsibility to put the data in - it is YOURS (everyone not just you 3339). My response to him was the same as to everyone else who asked a similiar question - "Get the Chief of your ARTCC/FIR to contact me and I will set them up".

 

If people choose to use it - then that's great. If they don't choose to use it, create their own system, or use something else like the one in Germany (which is a good system) then I am cool with that as well.

 

Happy Holidays everyone.

 

Ian Elchitz

Calgary, AB

http://www.eleventhstreet.com/fb2

[Dave Weese 817228]

And its really easy too. Just copy your routes in to an excel file that Ian will send you and add SID/STAR info and your done.

 

Took me about 2hours for 350 routes for Toronto FIR

[Joerg Stenger 813658]

Ian,

 

if I sent a mail to flightboard at eleventhstreet dot com, would it reach you?

 

Best regards and a happy new year,

Jörg

[Ian Elchitz 810151]

Ian,

 

if I sent a mail to flightboard at eleventhstreet dot com, would it reach you?

 

Yep.

[Robert Kesik 863677]

Hey there,

 

So far this is one of the largest i've used yet. http://www.pl-vacc.org/pol3/fp_main.php?site=pl