Pilots disconnecting when receiving contact me.

[Andrew Ogden]

Arthur,

 

I would like to echo Rob's question, and ask you why you connect to VATSIM if you avoid ATC? Surely if you do not want to interact with air traffic control you could simply just fly offline?

 

Cheer,s

[Richard Quigley]

Hi Old buddy, I was in the Royal Air Force working on the real aeroplanes before you were wearing three cornered pants. {nappies or diapers}

Ad hominem replies of this nature do nothing to enhance the moral position of the author nor do they advance an argument.

 

Replies above that cite the purpose of VATSIM (Virtual Air Traffic SIMulation) should have been sufficient to answer the question.

 

This network exists solely to provide an interface between Air Traffic Controllers and Pilots in a simulation of real world conditions.

Pilots who find ATC intrusive should simply fly off line. If they wish fly in company with other pilots there are several programs that make that possible. One need not be connected to VATSIM and there is no risk of intrusive ATC.

Edited July 6, 2019 at 11:17 AM by Guest

[Andreas Fuchs]

Oh, and don't go to IVAO: they do the same as we do: interaction between pilots and controllers.

[Nestor Perez]

I feel like this thread has turned into "everyone 'against' Arthur"... I'm sure he can now see and understand what VATSIM is meant for and take any decission accordingly.

 

We should probably go back to the original topic and see if there's any other reasons for pilots disconnecting. This is something which affects many of us regularly when ATCing and it might help to understand the reasons behind it

[Andreas Fuchs]

Arthur is just the poor soul who admitted to avoiding ATC on an ATC-network.

[Richard Quigley]

...We should probably go back to the original topic and see if there's any other reasons for pilots disconnecting. This is something which affects many of us regularly when ATCing and it might help to understand the reasons behind it

I think that there are probably as many reasons why this happens as there are pilots who do it.

Primarily it is lack of mental preparation. SOME pilots are not sufficiently prepared to handle their aircraft and to concentrate on reacting to ATC directions.

SOME controllers are not prepared to distinguish between simply keeping aircraft from damaging each others paintwork and strict regulation and conforming to procedures.

SOME pilots appear not to have read Expectations and Requirements for Pilots. https://www.vatsim.net/pilot-resource-centre/vatsim-basics/expectations-and-requirements-pilots

Now, to be fair, Arthur likely knows how to fly his aircraft of choice. In fact he has likely more flying experience than most controllers have controlling experience. Nevertheless, he has not contributed to the discussion other than to say he "feels" that ATC are "over intrusive" and that they are "the voice of doom". It is apparent that his RAF service (for which I thank him) did not involve flying. I would really like to hear his reasons for flying on an on line network expressly established to provide ATC to Pilot interaction.

Everyone is not "against Arthur" as Nestor, trying to pour oil on troubled waters, says.

But we would like to hear his reasons for eschewing ATC on a network whose prime raison d'être is to provide, as far as is possible in a purely volunteer organization, Air Traffic Control services.

[Arthur Melton]

In the beginning there were pilots and no controllers now its getting to the state were there are controllers and a diminishing amount of pilots either through pilots switching off or pilotless aircraft. Aircraft using an FMC is pretty close to this . When I entered this discussion I didn't think that there would be so many biased people as controllers but then in the ATC section of the forum what should I expect .Sometimes in the early hours I switch on Vatspy and see many aircraft in the bottom half of the world ,I wonder why as many of these members are from the USA or Europe and there are not any controllers down here. As for me I fly in the Pacific ,Russia or Africa so as not to be bothered by intrusive controllers who I consider most of the time do not need to contact an aircraft .

You controllers carry on you are doing a good job for those who use you but if I am on approach I shall switch you off, you should know better. Thanks for all your comments ,Lara3

[Magnus Meese]

In the beginning there were pilots and no controllers now its getting to the state were there are controllers and a diminishing amount of pilots either through pilots switching off or pilotless aircraft

This is nonsensical for both VATSIM and real life.

 

Why do you use VATSIM, a network specifically created for ATC-pilot interaction, when you only want the pilot side? It's not that we don't want you here, we just don't understand the reasoning for using this network when other multiplayer setups / AI traffic usage would be far better for non-ATC simming.

 

Keep in mind that disconnecting upon recieving a contact-me is more than likely making the ATC feel bad, especially if they are quite new to the network and excited to get traffic.

[Dhruv Kalra]

As for me I fly in the Pacific ,Russia or Africa so as not to be bothered by intrusive controllers who I consider most of the time do not need to contact an aircraft .

You controllers carry on you are doing a good job for those who use you but if I am on approach I shall switch you off, you should know better. Thanks for all your comments ,Lara3

I’m sorry my desire to provide ATC Services impinges on your desire to be antisocial on a multiplayer network. Seriously, why do you bother connecting to VATSIM in the first place, then?

[Andreas Fuchs]

Arthur, your comments and behaviour are not appreciated, nor here, nor on the network. Since most VATSIM-members are really p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ionate about VATSIM's intention: providing and receiving ATC-services. Maybe you should just stop connecting to VATSIM to avoid all those "intrusive controllers". I don't even know what you consider "intrusive"... I can only guess it and I find your behaviour on the forum and on the network highly insulting to other members who are investing a lot of time and effort to get to the level that they are on.

[Johnny Coughlan]

In the beginning there were pilots and no controllers now its getting to the state were there are controllers and a diminishing amount of pilots either through pilots switching off or pilotless aircraft.

 

When did you join VATSIM and begin flying?, 2009?, sorry to burst your bubble but this was not the 'beginning'.

 

I joined in 2003(which was still not the 'beginning') and there was plenty of both, maybe not in your part of the world but thankfully the world doesn't revolve around you.

 

When I entered this discussion I didn't think that there would be so many biased people as controllers but then in the ATC section of the forum what should I expect .

 

People won't always agree with your point of view, don't try hide your frustration behind an accusation of bias.

 

Sometimes in the early hours I switch on Vatspy and see many aircraft in the bottom half of the world ,I wonder why as many of these members are from the USA or Europe and there are not any controllers down here

 

Don't wonder too hard, people have varying work shifts, personal lives, personal prefences of scenery purchases, there is usually a miriade of reasons non of which may reflect on anything you might be insinuating.

 

As for me I fly in the Pacific ,Russia or Africa so as not to be bothered by intrusive controllers who I consider most of the time do not need to contact an aircraft .

 

Arthur is cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ic example of the systemic problem VATSIM faces where pilots can just sign up, log on and use the network other than what is was created for(a place for pilots and ATC to activly interact with each other). He goes out of his was so not to interact with 'intrusive controllers'.

 

You controllers carry on you are doing a good job for those who use you but if I am on approach I shall switch you off, you should know better.

 

We have and we will.

 

Don't forget to upgrade your pilot client as FSInn will be decommisioned from use on the network soon, don't want to you miss out.

 

Happy flighting .

[Orjan Polman]

As a fairly new pilot on Vatsim, my online flights could be counted on one hand I think...

I still get a little startled when I receive the private message from a controller, asking me "please contact me on xxx.xx".

But that's because I'm new & nervous

How that can be intrusive I don't know, never felt it like that.

And personally, that's why I connect in the first place. To interact with ATC.

 

To each their own I guess, but I really appreciate it if a controller can be "bothered" to contact me; being on the ground before/while taxing, or when airborne.

That's the only way I can get better at flying online, so I am not disconnecting anything.

And I have really become fascinated by this excellent way to learn more and expand this great hobby!

[Richard Quigley]

Arthur Melton 1092578 wrote:

You controllers carry on you are doing a good job for those who use you but if I am on approach I shall switch you off, you should know better.

Why don't you try Pilot Edge https://www.pilotedge.net/?

[Joseph Jucha 1343412]

To each their own I guess, but I really appreciate it if a controller can be "bothered" to contact me; being on the ground before/while taxing, or when airborne.

Orjan, believe me there are loads of us , given the time, that love helping people get a solid start. When you set up at an airport look at your client to make sure there is no controller online before you taxi/take off. If there is call them, don't wait for a call me now, you will get your clearance and instructions. That is on the ground.

In the air it's a bit trickier, Take a look at the vatsim pilot's resource page for help on when to call and what information they will be looking for.

Have fun and enjoy the learning!

[Andrew Ogden]

As a fairly new pilot on Vatsim, my online flights could be counted on one hand I think...

I still get a little startled when I receive the private message from a controller, asking me "please contact me on xxx.xx".

But that's because I'm new & nervous

How that can be intrusive I don't know, never felt it like that.

And personally, that's why I connect in the first place. To interact with ATC.

 

To each their own I guess, but I really appreciate it if a controller can be "bothered" to contact me; being on the ground before/while taxing, or when airborne.

That's the only way I can get better at flying online, so I am not disconnecting anything.

And I have really become fascinated by this excellent way to learn more and expand this great hobby!

Thank you Orjan for your perspective as a new pilot. To me, this is a perfect example of what this network was intended for; the active interaction between ATC and pilots, as well as being a friendly environment where everyone can learn from their mistakes and hone their skills as a virtual pilot/controller. For those that want to use this platform for anything else, that's their loss as far as I can see. They are missing out on an incredibly unique experience.

[Daniel Morris 1132365]

Arthur simply wishes to fly with other people, without atc, I would recommend connecting to the network on swift as an observer, in this way he won't have to interact with any services at the same time not impeding others.

 

Going back to the chap who replied to my post, a personalised friendly contact me is perfect, if you can make it sound welcoming; the newbie may be less startled, I encourage it.

[Nick Saffari]

Thanks for all the responses! I do agree that the contact me should be a little more friendly. Also it's not a bad thing to receive one. We are just letting you know to get on our frequency. Anyway thanks a lot for the responses. I loved reading them.

[Nick Saffari]

In the beginning there were pilots and no controllers now its getting to the state were there are controllers and a diminishing amount of pilots either through pilots switching off or pilotless aircraft

This is nonsensical for both VATSIM and real life.

 

Why do you use VATSIM, a network specifically created for ATC-pilot interaction, when you only want the pilot side? It's not that we don't want you here, we just don't understand the reasoning for using this network when other multiplayer setups / AI traffic usage would be far better for non-ATC simming.

 

Keep in mind that disconnecting upon recieving a contact-me is more than likely making the ATC feel bad, especially if they are quite new to the network and excited to get traffic.

Agreed, part of the fun is you coming in to fly. When you leave it's sad because it's one less aircraft to control.

[Andreas Fuchs]

A few members may make a mistake by taking communication too personal. "Contact me on frequency xxx.xxx" is not unfriendly at all, it's simply a more or less standard way to bring a message across. Pilot-ATC-communication should be based on facts and not on emotions, courtesy is the last thing that a controller/pilot should think about. The main thing that you need to observe is "am I bringing my intended message across?". That's the way. Of course, nobody will punish you if you prefer sending out a "Please make contact on frequency xxx.xxx", if you think that it won't scare off pilots.

[Orjan Polman]

Orjan, believe me there are loads of us , given the time, that love helping people get a solid start. When you set up at an airport look at your client to make sure there is no controller online before you taxi/take off. If there is call them, don't wait for a call me now, you will get your clearance and instructions. That is on the ground.

In the air it's a bit trickier, Take a look at the vatsim pilot's resource page for help on when to call and what information they will be looking for.

Have fun and enjoy the learning!

I know you are, and I have had the pleasure to get both patience and help from controllers.

That's partly why I always make contact on ground, if there is someone online.

When entering a controlled sector I also make contact, but sometimes they beat me to it..

I actually did a lot of reading on the pilot resource page, before even thinking of connecting.

But it never hurts to brush up on that info, thanks for reminding me!

 

Thank you Orjan for your perspective as a new pilot. To me, this is a perfect example of what this network was intended for; the active interaction between ATC and pilots, as well as being a friendly environment where everyone can learn from their mistakes and hone their skills as a virtual pilot/controller. For those that want to use this platform for anything else, that's their loss as far as I can see. They are missing out on an incredibly unique experience.

Glad to share Andrew!

I have only met friendly controllers, and it is really encouraging me to keep at it and keep learning.

People sure are missing out, if they don't want to interact.... For me it's an adrenalin rush like nothing else!

Specially at events, I joined the Kai Tak event last Saturday...

You should have seen me; sweating and shivering behind the yoke, trying to keep up with things

But it went quite well, and it's the most fun I've had with my clothes on!

 

Cheers!

[Romano Lara]

Arthur simply wishes to fly with other people, without atc, I would recommend connecting to the network on swift as an observer, in this way he won't have to interact with any services at the same time not impeding others.

 

Going back to the chap who replied to my post, a personalised friendly contact me is perfect, if you can make it sound welcoming; the newbie may be less startled, I encourage it.

 

Oh this is perfect, even with vPilot there's also an observer mode...

Perfect for the likes of Arthur who wish not to interact with ATC or anyone else.

[Arthur Melton]

Who controls the controllers and to what code??

[Richard Quigley]

Each Division provides a training program for its own controllers. The training programs must meet the VATSIM requirments as set out in the Global Ratings Policy. https://www.vatsim.net/docomeents/global-ratings-policy

 

All of us, Controllers and Pilots, are governed by the VATSIM Code of Regulations

https://www.vatsim.net/docomeents/code-of-regulations and Code of Conduct.

https://www.vatsim.net/docomeents/code-of-conduct

[Andreas Fuchs]

Who controls the controllers and to what code??

Please elaborate.

[Johnny Coughlan]

Who controls the controllers and to what code??

Please elaborate.

 

Please don't.

 

This guy is out to troll people, dont fall for it .

 

Arthur seems to not be taking the upcoming demise of FSINN well https://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=78853&p=533519#p533519

 

He's an FS2004/FSINN user who wants to keep the status quo, yet does not take part in the spirit the network was founded on, ATC and pilots interacting and working together as evident by his own admission.

 

May the network roll forward with the much needed updates and not be held hostage to people like this any longer.