ZTL DATM Opening

[Kyle Ramsey 810181]

A position is now open for a dynamic, committed individual to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ist the ZTL Air Traffic Manager in overseeing the ZTL airspace and staff. This would be an appropriate position for persons with excellent understanding of VATSIM regulations and requirements, and real world airspace procedures.

 

 

Job Duties:

 

• [Mod - Happy Thoughts]isting in development and rollout of major projects

• Manage administration of the ZTL roster

• Develop and maintain all letters of agreement (LOAs)

• Monitoring the state of the ARTCC

• Perform duties of ATM in ATM’s absence

 

The successful candidate will have many, if not most, of the following qualities:

 

Required:

• S-3 rating or above

• Commitment to active controlling and frequent online presence

• Customer service orientation

• Excellent interpersonal skills

• Constructive, forward-thinking approach to improvements and future enhancements

 

Highly Desired:

• Experience controlling in the ZTL airspace

• Real world pilot or controller experience

• Real world administrative experience

• Previous DATM, Training Administrator, or Staff Instructor experience

• Website administration skills a plus

 

Applications should include:

 

* Full Name and VATSIM CID

* Ideas that could improve the Atlanta ARTCC

 

The time requirements for the position varies on a week by week basis. A major reworking of ZTL’s airspace and training program is in progress. The selected individual will be expected to set an example of diligence and dedication, continue to enhance operations, and set an example for the rest of the staff.

 

Come join our professional staff at one of VATUSA’s busiest and largest ARTCC’s! Email a decent, organized, application to:

 

helpwanted(at)ztlartcc.org

 

All applications must be submitted by August 7, 2006.

[Wes Kirkpatrick 854876]

I have been thinking to myself for awhile after seeing this post for ZTL DATM. I was thinking that requiring only an S3 or greater is a real big mistake. I mean someone coming out of the training academy is an S3 and you want me to believe that they are ready to hold a staff position for an ARTCC. I do not think it is a good idea having that inexperienced of a person second in command for an ARTCC. I beleive that requireing a C3 is the best way to go and if nobody qulifies drop down to accept C1's. If I am the olny one that thinks this then let me know and I will not say another word about it. I usually do not get too active in these forums, but I just had to speak up about this matter.

[Paul Heaney 879309]

Actually as an ATM, you SHOULD be active in these forums. IMO.

[Jo Keeler 892070]

Honestly, I don't think it matters on your rating, ie. S3, or a I-3. It's about leadership and do you have the time.

[Brandon Grchan 925585]

Actually as an ATM, you SHOULD be active in these forums. IMO.

 

 

And who are YOU to make the [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umtion that he doesnt read it every day? Every occur to you that they have a private forum?

 

jeez you get better with every post dont ya

[Jo Keeler 892070]

Play nice children...

[Tom Meyer 944876]

And who are YOU to make the [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umtion that he doesnt read it every day?

Reading a forum isn't being active in it. What good does reading it do, if you don't post and throw out opinions on the public forum.

 

jeez you get better with every post dont ya

Just like you.

[Terry Kocher 919807]

Honestly, I don't think it matters on your rating, ie. S3, or a I-3. It's about leadership and do you have the time.

 

Exactly.

 

Being able to control and being able to lead a team or help lead a team are two completely different skills.

 

A veteran of VATSIM who has been here for 5+ years may be one of the best controllers on the network and may know the ropes like the back of his hand, but that doesn't automatically mean he would make the perfect ATM, DATM, or TA.

 

Reading a forum isn't being active in it. What good does reading it do, if you don't post and throw out opinions on the public forum.

 

Reading forums keeps you up to date on what is going on within that community.

 

Actually as an ATM, you SHOULD be active in these forums. IMO.

 

These forums are entirely optional, no matter who you are or what position you hold. Dennis is more than active in the ZTL local forums and he does read these forums. There is no requirement to post on these forums, nor should there be.

 

I can completely understand why he doesn't want to post on these forums. I, personally, have had a bad taste in my mouth recently from reading these forums. VATSIM really has been taking a blow with all of these forum flamefests going on, it really makes us look like a group of 10 year olds.

 

So I can understand why someone might want to stay out, especially with Dennis's circomestances, he was choosen to be the ATM for one of VATUSA's largest and busiest ARTCC's and at the time he was still pretty new to the network, S3 I think (see first quote)

Edited August 7, 2006 at 10:08 PM by Guest

[Jo Keeler 892070]

Honestly, I don't think it matters on your rating, ie. S3, or a I-3. It's about leadership and do you have the time.

 

Exactly.

 

At least someone agrees with me.

 

Personally, I want an ATM that is available, friendly, and has a personality. By personality, I don't mean someone that can name every checklist item on B738 from memory and only cares about VATSIM and airplanes. But someone who likes to talk about other stuff such as sports, girls haha, and anything else I guess. An ATM has to be a leader and be able to take the individuals in an ARTCC and have them come together and build a team. So I do think that an ATM should be active on the forums.

 

I'm not saying that the person should only be a leader, but he/she should also have knowledge regarding ATC and airplanes... that's why we are here isn't it?

[Joe Caban 844086]

Honestly, I don't think it matters on your rating, ie. S3, or a I-3. It's about leadership and do you have the time.

 

Exactly.

 

Being able to control and being able to lead a team or help lead a team are two completely different skills.

 

A veteran of VATSIM who has been here for 5+ years may be one of the best controllers on the network and may know the ropes like the back of his hand, but that doesn't automatically mean he would make the perfect ATM, DATM, or TA.

 

i concur.

 

As for the forum activity...i don't see a reason for it. Each ARTCC has it's own forum and the DATM should stay up on ARTCC forums. That is where all the useful info is.

[Bo Gercke 845743]

Intersting thread at an interesting time... The thing that i find most amuzing/sad/ concerning is that one of the largest ARTCC's on the network can't find a viable, or qualified candidate to take the DATM position. I think it's entirely plausible that the people who have been around the network, and are qualifed to take the position DON'T WANT IT. It has nothing to do with the facility, but more to do with the VATUSA organization. When you look at how many Staff positions are available, yet they're either slow to fill, or won't fill, it's a sign that something is amiss.

 

This too is just my opinion, but it would be HIGHLY unusual for an S3 to know enough about the entire network to effectively run an ARTCC. From top to bottom, there's a lack of experience. I'm not one to say this typically, but in this case, leadership takes a back seat to overall knowledge of the network. Things like knowing where to find things (VATSIM,AVSIM, VASTUSA site,), who to go to for help, who to talk to for design issues, etc, etc. don't come over night. VATSIM is also a "who do you know" network. Having people you know can and will help you is crucial to getting things done. That only comes with time. It comes with experience.

 

As for the forum activity...i don't see a reason for it. Each ARTCC has it's own forum and the DATM should stay up on ARTCC forums. That is where all the useful info is.

 

Are you kidding? You're saying that there is nothing on these forums which can prove useful to an ARTCC? Wow...ok... I wholly disagree. Richard Jenkins is not going to come to your ARTCC forum to post something the whole Division needs to know. He'll post it here. A fly-in notice that a neighboring ARTCC is hosting may have missed your ARTCC, but because you looked here, you found out about the fly-in, and staffed your facility, generating more traffic and ops. When you're neighbored by 3 ARTCC's, as I was, sometimes those things get missed. Checking this forum notified me. It created opportunities for me to generate traffic.

 

A veteran of VATSIM who has been here for 5+ years may be one of the best controllers on the network and may know the ropes like the back of his hand, but that doesn't automatically mean he would make the perfect ATM, DATM, or TA.

 

You missed the point, Terry. You don't need to be perfect to do these jobs well, you need to be EFFECTIVE. I'll take the guy who has 5+ years of expereince, and a desire to learn, and teach him how to be effecitve faster than I can take a new S3, regardless of desire, and teach them how to be effective. This is especially true with the ATM, DATM, and TA positions.

 

These forums are entirely optional, no matter who you are or what position you hold. Dennis is more than active in the ZTL local forums and he does read these forums.

 

You just spoke out of both sides of your mouth in two sentences. There's a reason that I took as much time as I did every day looking over these forums. There's a reason Dennis does it also. Things that were once part of the hobby change when you're leading a team of 50+ people in an organization. It's simply more responsibility. It is no longer a "Hobby". It becomes a job. Just look at the really big, fast growing, dynamic facilites, and what it took to get them there. Someone, somewhere, was putting in a ton of time with a dedicated staff to make that happen. You can point to London, Los Angeles, and Atlanta. Than look at the facilites that were once BOOMING, and have dwindled. I'm not going to name names, but you've been around long enough to know who they are. Is it coincidence that they fell off? Hardly.

 

I can completely understand why he doesn't want to post on these forums. I, personally, have had a bad taste in my mouth recently from reading these forums. VATSIM really has been taking a blow with all of these forum flamefests going on, it really makes us look like a group of 10 year olds.

 

VATUSA is taking a blow because of poor leadership, and because we've become this gigantic beaureucratic black hole. The left hand is trying to clap with the right hand, but the fingers are getting in the way. The forum is NOT the problem. It's a SYMPTOM of the problem. No other Division has the issues that USA has. Well, maybe one.. And the leadership will point to "being the largest division on the network". You don't see any other division with the amount of strife in the ranks as there is in VATUSA. It's the reason ATM's resign. TA's quit. There aren't enough mentors. Can't find instructors. Can't find qualified people to step up for positions.

 

/RANT

[Terry Kocher 919807]

Posting on| These forums are entirely optional, no matter who you are or what position you hold. Dennis is more than active in the ZTL local forums and he does read these forums

 

Maybe that will clarify what I meant by those two sentences.

 

VATUSA is taking a blow because of poor leadership, and because we've become this gigantic beaureucratic black hole. The left hand is trying to clap with the right hand, but the fingers are getting in the way. The forum is NOT the problem. It's a SYMPTOM of the problem. No other Division has the issues that USA has. Well, maybe one.. And the leadership will point to "being the largest division on the network". You don't see any other division with the amount of strife in the ranks as there is in VATUSA. It's the reason ATM's resign. TA's quit. There aren't enough mentors. Can't find instructors. Can't find qualified people to step up for positions.

 

Someone finally speaks the truth.

[Jo Keeler 892070]

Gotta love these forums...

 

I get to pretend I'm a politician!

[Timothy Boger 942264]

Gotta love these forums...

 

I get to pretend I'm a politician!

 

Yes! I love it.

 

To answer the point on it being unusual to have an S3 be a viable candidate...wouldn't that show up in the choosing of the position?

 

Of course...when its your only candidate...you can always keep searching and turn the S3 newb down. If he's a good little boy(orgirl) he'll understand. And if he doesn't understand, he's not worth your time.

[Tanner Litowsky 877756]

think it's entirely plausible that the people who have been around the network, and are qualifed to take the position DON'T WANT IT. It has nothing to do with the facility, but more to do with the VATUSA organization.

 

VATSIM really has been taking a blow with all of these forum flamefests going on, it really makes us look like a group of 10 year olds.

 

VATUSA is taking a blow because of poor leadership

 

gigantic beaureucratic black hole

 

It's a SYMPTOM of the problem. No other Division has the issues that USA has. Well, maybe one.. And the leadership will point to "being the largest division on the network". You don't see any other division with the amount of strife in the ranks as there is in VATUSA. It's the reason ATM's resign. TA's quit. There aren't enough mentors. Can't find instructors. Can't find qualified people to step up for positions.

[Joe Caban 844086]

As for the forum activity...i don't see a reason for it. Each ARTCC has it's own forum and the DATM should stay up on ARTCC forums. That is where all the useful info is.

 

i think you missed the joke... but i did agree with the majority of your post.

[Paul Heaney 879309]

[jeez you get better with every post dont ya

 

If I get half as good as your pathetic posts, I'll start to worry.

[Brandon Grchan 925585]

 

Someone finally speaks the truth.

 

He's not the first

 

If I get half as good as your pathetic posts, I'll start to worry. Shocked

'

 

Dont worry I wont let you get this bad. Besides I hear It requires a simple OTS

[Paul Heaney 879309]

Dont worry I wont let you get this bad. Besides I hear It requires a simple OTS

 

If you ever get more than 2 AC at a time, let me know, maybe then it will be worth doing an OTS. But that's doubtful.

[Paul Biderman]

Guys,

 

Knock off the petty personal fueds. You're perpetuating the very problems that you say are happening on this forum. It serves no purpose but to make yourselves look worse.

 

As for the ZTL DATM opening, we can list it for any rating we want. Just like when I chose Dennis for the ATM job, VATSIM rating doesn't always represent how capable a person is of leading an ARTCC.

 

And Bo, instead of bashing VATUSA, why don't you apply for some of these open positions that you claim we can't fill (which isn't true, but that's another topic) and help try to fix some of the problems you think exist in VATUSA?

 

I think you'd find that the VATUSA you were a part of when you ran ZJX is not the VATUSA we have now, and the division as it exists now is operating very smoothly and with excellent leadership at all levels.

 

Poor leaderhip would show up in things like ARTCCs that aren't held accountable for their status, or the academy failing, or the division failing to even post job openings as they come up, etc.... None of these things are happening.

 

I wish people would stop bashing VATUSA because it's the "fashionable" thing for the vocal minority to do, and look at the division objectively, and if they saw real specific problems, take steps to try and help resolve them.

 

Threads that degrade into the garbage we have here serve no purpose.

[Dustin Peppers 888157]

I would not be a member of any ARTCC that has inexperienced students running it. Leadership requires experience.

[Andrew Musselman]

I would not be a member of any ARTCC that has inexperienced students running it. Leadership requires experience.

 

 

Experience in being a leader? Or an experienced controller? Dennis has plenty of real world leadership outside of VATSIM. He ran a TV station for 20 years. Sure he may be new to the VATSIM ropes but so far he is doing a 4/5 job. There is always room for improvement. Maybe he's not the best controller in the world..... why does that matter? Is part of his job being a great controller? I think I missed that.

For the last few months Dennis has had Terry Kocher there helping him learn how things work. Terry has done a great job in doing this. As soon as accepted Dennis made alot of changes which I know have benifited the ARTCC. I feel as though the only problem that Dennis may have is picking his team. But with the help of TK I am sure they will find a good person for the job.

[Jo Keeler 892070]

I would not be a member of any ARTCC that has inexperienced students running it. Leadership requires experience.

 

Yah, I must say I disagree with you too.

[Joe Caban 844086]

I would not be a member of any ARTCC that has inexperienced students running it. Leadership requires experience.

 

leadership requires experience in life not experience in a dark room in front of a monitor connected to a virtual ATC network.

[Chris Gauthier 895085]

I used to be a member of the VATUSA staff. I left VATUSA when my time became scarce and people were making unrealistic demands of my ARTCC's staff (of which I was the DATM). I saw many constructive topics in the VATUSA Staff Forums, but just as many flame wars and petty stuff.

 

For God Sakes.... this is a game. It's here for us to have fun!!!!!!!!! I left all of my roles with VATUSA to be a simple controller because I was not having fun and will not be dictated to about how much time I *must* spend online. When it comes to my life, the computer takes second fiddle to my family and work.

 

What is my opinions of the current VATUSA? Suffice to say I have no interest in serving on the staff. Been there, done that, had the stress headaches. I hope VATUSA can get what problems it has worked out because, while it's not a "bad" place to control, there is some room for improvement. (Remember, nothing is perfect.) The first and most important thing is to realize VATSIM is not a controller's life and that we have lives offline.

 

On the positive side, the spotlight nights are a welcome return. It's good to see that the ARTCC's are not complaining about other ARTCC's stealing traffic. For that, I commend the ARTCC leaderships and the VATUSA leadership.

 

Have a great day,

 

Chris