Jump to content

You're browsing the 2004-2023 VATSIM Forums archive. All content is preserved in a read-only fashion.
For the latest forum posts, please visit https://forum.vatsim.net.

Need to find something? Use the Google search below.

Need explanation on EGKK departure to DVR


Alexander Vasiliev 1227370
 Share

Recommended Posts

Alexander Vasiliev 1227370
Posted
Posted

Hi.

Yesterday I flew from Gatwick. Created route via DVR as "exit point", this way I expected to use DVR 9M/9V for 26L or DVR 2P/2W for 08R, as published on charts "AD 2.EGKK-6-18".

It was 26L in use. Giving clearance ATC adviced me to follow ADMAG 2X departure, after ADMAG go to DVR. ATC tried to explain quickly why but honestly I didnt really understand, partly because my flight had certain schedule on departure, en-route and arrival times so I just agreed with ATC and took ADMAG 2X (even this way I was late 10 min on departure but it doesnt matter in this topic).

Yesterday is yesterday, today is today. And today I would like to understand whats wrong with DVR departures, especially DVR 9M/9V departure for 26L. I checked charts once again and didnt really find anything wrong about it. In another words, I cant find the reason why ATC couldnt give or accept with me (I told him I was expecting DVR 9M) ... Can anyone explain?

Thanks in advance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Peter  Punsvik 1401265
Posted
Posted

Good question, I think I have it. On the note section General information no. 9 it says: DVR 9M/9V: "In order to alleviate airspace congestion and improve ATC flexibility, pilots may be offered WIZAD 4M/4V SID at late stage prior to departure." Both WIZAD and ADMAG is east of gatwick so both these sids are probably used to sequence traffic. I don't know how much traffic it was when you were flying but I reckon have a rerouting like this is not unusual.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Andreas Fuchs
Posted
Posted

On top of it you will more likely get an RNAV-SIDs, rather than a conventional SID. With more experience it won't take you 10 minutes to insert and review a new SID in the future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dace Nicmane
Posted
Posted

What aircraft and equipment were you flying?

KntU2Cw.jpg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alexander Vasiliev 1227370
Posted
Posted
What aircraft and equipment were you flying?

 

MD82, able to fly both conventional and RNAV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Board of Governors
Simon Kelsey
Posted
Posted

Some time ago the DVR SIDs (along with quite a lot of others in the London TMA) were truncated.

 

The new RNAV departures finish at ADMAG but then the standard (only) route out is via the airway to DVR, just like the old DVR departure.

 

This was done for fuel saving reasons (in the past airlines had to flight plan to remain at 6000ft all the way to DVR, even though in practice they would have got a climb from ATC much earlier anyway). Now you only need to carry fuel to stay at 6000ft to ADMAG which is obviously a lot closer... hence big savings!

 

Because the ADMAG departures require RNAV1, the old DVR departures have been retained for use by aircraft that are not capable of flying the RNAV. However the RNAV1 SID will be issued by default unless the pilot specifically requests a conventional nav SID (in reality and also on VATSIM).

 

There are a number of other departures out of other London TMA airports which are similar (e.g. ULTIB/UMLAT replacing WOBUN/BUZAD at Heathrow etc).

 

Hope that helps explain it!

Vice President, Pilot Training

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Martin Loxbo
Posted
Posted

Interesting, I guess NUGBO instead of CPT out of EGSS is for the same reason?

Martin Loxbo

Director Sweden FIR

VATSIM Scandinavia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Martin Loxbo
Posted
Posted

It has made a noticeable difference for our profile in the flight plan, it has us climbing much earlier which probably has resulted in less fuel uplift.

 

The only downside is the old routing (EGSS-LEBL) was CPT UN859 PUMAL. Now it's a few more airways to punch into the FMC.

Martin Loxbo

Director Sweden FIR

VATSIM Scandinavia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Magnus Meese
Posted
Posted

Andreas, while you're working on funding ACARS for Martin's airline, could you find room in your budget for FlyBe as well? Would make my life easier!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Martin Loxbo
Posted
Posted
Use your ACARS and download it

 

 

Funny enough, last night as we climbed out ATC gave us direct CPT, even though it's not part of the route since the last few years now.

Martin Loxbo

Director Sweden FIR

VATSIM Scandinavia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Andreas Fuchs
Posted
Posted

I'm surprised that you guys do not have a relevant safety item like ACARS/AFIS available! I thought that this would make your operation more efficient, too, as you won't waste time punching in flightplans, you'll get all the loadsheets, weather information, company com etc.. When our AFIS does not work I feel like flying without TCAS: naked and blind!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Martin Loxbo
Posted
Posted

We're just a bit more hardcore!

 

We do have RTE 2 so we can p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] time in the cruise by putting in the route for the next sector...

Martin Loxbo

Director Sweden FIR

VATSIM Scandinavia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share