Alexander Vasiliev 1227370 Posted July 27, 2019 at 08:26 AM Posted July 27, 2019 at 08:26 AM Hi. Yesterday I flew from Gatwick. Created route via DVR as "exit point", this way I expected to use DVR 9M/9V for 26L or DVR 2P/2W for 08R, as published on charts "AD 2.EGKK-6-18". It was 26L in use. Giving clearance ATC adviced me to follow ADMAG 2X departure, after ADMAG go to DVR. ATC tried to explain quickly why but honestly I didnt really understand, partly because my flight had certain schedule on departure, en-route and arrival times so I just agreed with ATC and took ADMAG 2X (even this way I was late 10 min on departure but it doesnt matter in this topic). Yesterday is yesterday, today is today. And today I would like to understand whats wrong with DVR departures, especially DVR 9M/9V departure for 26L. I checked charts once again and didnt really find anything wrong about it. In another words, I cant find the reason why ATC couldnt give or accept with me (I told him I was expecting DVR 9M) ... Can anyone explain? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Punsvik 1401265 Posted July 27, 2019 at 09:43 AM Posted July 27, 2019 at 09:43 AM Good question, I think I have it. On the note section General information no. 9 it says: DVR 9M/9V: "In order to alleviate airspace congestion and improve ATC flexibility, pilots may be offered WIZAD 4M/4V SID at late stage prior to departure." Both WIZAD and ADMAG is east of gatwick so both these sids are probably used to sequence traffic. I don't know how much traffic it was when you were flying but I reckon have a rerouting like this is not unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted July 27, 2019 at 10:14 AM Posted July 27, 2019 at 10:14 AM On top of it you will more likely get an RNAV-SIDs, rather than a conventional SID. With more experience it won't take you 10 minutes to insert and review a new SID in the future. Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dace Nicmane Posted July 27, 2019 at 10:20 AM Posted July 27, 2019 at 10:20 AM What aircraft and equipment were you flying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Vasiliev 1227370 Posted July 27, 2019 at 03:27 PM Author Posted July 27, 2019 at 03:27 PM What aircraft and equipment were you flying? MD82, able to fly both conventional and RNAV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Board of Governors Simon Kelsey Posted July 27, 2019 at 05:54 PM Board of Governors Posted July 27, 2019 at 05:54 PM Some time ago the DVR SIDs (along with quite a lot of others in the London TMA) were truncated. The new RNAV departures finish at ADMAG but then the standard (only) route out is via the airway to DVR, just like the old DVR departure. This was done for fuel saving reasons (in the past airlines had to flight plan to remain at 6000ft all the way to DVR, even though in practice they would have got a climb from ATC much earlier anyway). Now you only need to carry fuel to stay at 6000ft to ADMAG which is obviously a lot closer... hence big savings! Because the ADMAG departures require RNAV1, the old DVR departures have been retained for use by aircraft that are not capable of flying the RNAV. However the RNAV1 SID will be issued by default unless the pilot specifically requests a conventional nav SID (in reality and also on VATSIM). There are a number of other departures out of other London TMA airports which are similar (e.g. ULTIB/UMLAT replacing WOBUN/BUZAD at Heathrow etc). Hope that helps explain it! Vice President, Pilot Training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Loxbo Posted July 31, 2019 at 10:59 PM Posted July 31, 2019 at 10:59 PM Interesting, I guess NUGBO instead of CPT out of EGSS is for the same reason? Martin Loxbo Director Sweden FIR VATSIM Scandinavia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Board of Governors Simon Kelsey Posted August 1, 2019 at 08:53 AM Board of Governors Posted August 1, 2019 at 08:53 AM Interesting, I guess NUGBO instead of CPT out of EGSS is for the same reason? Yes, exactly right! https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?catid=1&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=6027 Vice President, Pilot Training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Loxbo Posted August 2, 2019 at 12:46 PM Posted August 2, 2019 at 12:46 PM It has made a noticeable difference for our profile in the flight plan, it has us climbing much earlier which probably has resulted in less fuel uplift. The only downside is the old routing (EGSS-LEBL) was CPT UN859 PUMAL. Now it's a few more airways to punch into the FMC. Martin Loxbo Director Sweden FIR VATSIM Scandinavia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted August 3, 2019 at 05:25 PM Posted August 3, 2019 at 05:25 PM Use your ACARS and download it Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Meese Posted August 3, 2019 at 08:45 PM Posted August 3, 2019 at 08:45 PM Andreas, while you're working on funding ACARS for Martin's airline, could you find room in your budget for FlyBe as well? Would make my life easier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Loxbo Posted August 4, 2019 at 10:44 AM Posted August 4, 2019 at 10:44 AM Use your ACARS and download it Funny enough, last night as we climbed out ATC gave us direct CPT, even though it's not part of the route since the last few years now. Martin Loxbo Director Sweden FIR VATSIM Scandinavia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted August 4, 2019 at 01:41 PM Posted August 4, 2019 at 01:41 PM I'm surprised that you guys do not have a relevant safety item like ACARS/AFIS available! I thought that this would make your operation more efficient, too, as you won't waste time punching in flightplans, you'll get all the loadsheets, weather information, company com etc.. When our AFIS does not work I feel like flying without TCAS: naked and blind! Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Loxbo Posted August 5, 2019 at 10:36 PM Posted August 5, 2019 at 10:36 PM We're just a bit more hardcore! We do have RTE 2 so we can p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] time in the cruise by putting in the route for the next sector... Martin Loxbo Director Sweden FIR VATSIM Scandinavia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted August 6, 2019 at 09:20 PM Posted August 6, 2019 at 09:20 PM LOL ok, too much work for me! Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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