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What did i do wrong?


Thomas Van Gent 1122455
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My Dear fellow Pilots.

 

Thank you for reading this post.

 

Tonight i was flying from EHAM to EGLL to try out the new COMMS, Loving it so far but i disconnect after the second go around because i felt like i was messing up the delicate process from Londen director and APP. Everything was fine till the final approach on to runway 9L. I get the message to descent on the glide slope when i captured the localizer. I was flying the ZIBO 738 and i see on my PFD that i have a VOR LOC but for some reason my airplane didn't want to descent. Even when i had the VOR loc i pressed the APP button and still nothing. I'm racking my brain to think what did go wrong. I sure hope that the disconnect is without consequence because so far i'm loving VATSIM. People are professional and very friendly.

 

Shouldn't i have pressed the VOR LOC button? and just descent manual to see that the ED lines up with the ED on the PFD.

 

I'm open to all comments and looking forward to the advise you pro's give me.

 

And to the controllers on EGLL tonight. My apologies

 

Greetings

 

Thomas

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You'll need to ensure you are BELOW glideslope for the APP function to work at capturing and descending on GS. If you pressed it after you ended up above GS, it was too late and you'll either need to descend via a different mode (e.g. Vertical Rate) or go missed and try again.

Don Desfosse
Vice President, Membership

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Hi Thomas,

 

the ZiboMod 737 is buggy every now and then. What version are you currently using? I am on 3.36 + Fix 25, works fine for me.

 

Hi Andreas.

 

I'm currently using 3.36 as well. Al though the response from Don Desfosse makes sense i should have know that the GS wouldn't be captured at FL040. I think i'm just to nervous when i approach a active airport. Every controller i PM saying that i'm a new VATSIM pilot says the same thing. Take it easy we all gotta learn somewhere. I do have a 737-900 maby i should use that one when i'm flying online.

 

Thank you for the response

 

Greetings

 

Thomas

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You'll need to ensure you are BELOW glideslope for the APP function to work at capturing and descending on GS. If you pressed it after you ended up above GS, it was too late and you'll either need to descend via a different mode (e.g. Vertical Rate) or go missed and try again.

 

You are 100% right. Im gonna try the V/S function next time. lets see if i can smoothly land on a runway then

 

Thank you for the response

 

Greetings Thomas

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Hi Thomas! My point was really to make sure you're hitting the APP button soon enough! (but not too soon ). Once you are cleared for the approach, remember that the APP button allows you to capture BOTH lateral AND vertical guidance. the LOC button ONLY allows you lateral guidance. In most cases, you'll be cleared for the approach before LOC intercept, and should be using the APP button. Hope this helps!

Don Desfosse
Vice President, Membership

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Hi Thomas,

 

fair enough. Just make sure you keep updating the Zibo Mod, don't stay with the basic release version. There were some bugs in it and I will keep Revision 25 for the time being, but upgrade to a higher soon.

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Dear Andreas en Don.

 

Thank you so much for the advice you guys gave me.

 

I did the same flight as yesterday and with the advice from both of you i did touch down:)

 

I updated to the newest ZIBO 738 and this time when the controller says i should descent on the glide slope i did.

 

At 2500 ft i pressed the app button and what do you know. i capture the GS and auto landed ( Still to nervous to land myself)

 

I really wanna thank both of you for your help. The X-plane and VATSIM community is really nice and i know i'm gonna have a lot of enjoyable moments soon!

 

Thank you so much

 

Greetings Thomas

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I updated to the newest ZIBO 738 and this time when the controller says i should descent on the glide slope i did.

 

At 2500 ft i pressed the app button and what do you know. i capture the GS and auto landed ( Still to nervous to land myself)

 

The term "Descend (with/on) the Glide (path/slope)" is only a clearance you will get in the UK/Europe. You won't hear it in the USA, Australia or, as far as I know, other locations.

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Trent Hopkinson YMML. www.youtube.com/musicalaviator WorldFlight 2002,2008,2009, 2011, 2012, 2013 & 2015

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might sound dumb but if I'm not mistaken MCP alt can put a stop to your approach if it's set at your minimums, say you don't want to go any lower than 700ft unless you can see the runway. I forgot to set my MCP alt lower so when i intercepted the glide i stopped at my previous [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned 2,500ft
Not if you are flying a precision approach with automatic following of the vertical descent guidance. So, when flying an ILS, LPV or LNAV/VNAV approach, your ALT SEL (=selected altitude) should be disregarded. This, however, also depends on the type of aircraft and type of avionics that you are using. When performing an ILS-approach, it should NOT capture your ALT SEL at any time on any type (that I know of).

 

As a consequence you should not use APP mode when flying an ILS down to circling altitude, because it will not capture your circling minimum altitude. Rather use LOC + V/S or LOC + PATH (if your plane has that).

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The term "Descend (with/on) the Glide (path/slope)" is only a clearance you will get in the UK/Europe. You won't hear it in the USA, Australia or, as far as I know, other locations.
Cancel the word "Europe". It's the UK only (at least here in Europa) that uses this term. All they mean to say is "maintain xxxx feet until intercepting glideslope" and this is being used every now and the in many places.
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might sound dumb but if I'm not mistaken MCP alt can put a stop to your approach if it's set at your minimums, say you don't want to go any lower than 700ft unless you can see the runway. I forgot to set my MCP alt lower so when i intercepted the glide i stopped at my previous [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned 2,500ft
Not if you are flying a precision approach with automatic following of the vertical descent guidance. So, when flying an ILS, LPV or LNAV/VNAV approach, your ALT SEL (=selected altitude) should be disregarded...

 

In a 737 and other Boeing aircraft I'm familiar with, on an LNAV/VNAV approach the aircraft will definitely capture an MCP altitude. Operators have different procedures to deal with this; at my outfit we set the MCP altitude to field elevation, and if a go around happens the callouts are "TOGA, Flaps 15, positive rate, gear up, SET missed approach altitude" etc.

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In a 737 and other Boeing aircraft I'm familiar with, on an LNAV/VNAV approach the aircraft will definitely capture an MCP altitude. Operators have different procedures to deal with this; at my outfit we set the MCP altitude to field elevation, and if a go around happens the callouts are "TOGA, Flaps 15, positive rate, gear up, SET missed approach altitude" etc.
Thanks for the feedback! In this case it be advisable to set the ALT SEL to the missed approach altitude right away once you are established on the vertical path are below the missed approach altitude. That's our SOP.
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  • 4 weeks later...

The procedure I use, pretty much on any aircraft type:

 

1. You're zooming down the STAR / Transition on LNAV (and possibly VNAV, but usually ATC will be giving you explicit altitudes rather than clearing you for the profile).

2. As soon as you know which runway to expect, put the ILS frequency into NAV1.

3. Once ATC starts vectoring you, switch A/P to HDG mode, and, if necessary, set nav source to NAV1. Verify the ILS frequency and identifier.

4. Radar vectors (or, in rare cases, the full approach procedure or transition) will get you onto an intercept course and altitude. As soon as ATC clears you for the ILS, push the APP button, and watch the aircraft intercept the ILS localizer, and then the glideslope.

5. Once established on the ILS: enable second autopilot for autoland (if available); dial go-around altitude and heading into the autopilot; report established. I like to do it in that order: "aviate, navigate, communicate", and also because once you report established, you'll be handed over to tower, and the workload of that will interfere with the other two steps.

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Pleaae do not report "established" unless requested by ATC, it's just congesting frequencies. Obviously, if you are shooting the approach and feel that you have not been handed off to TWR-control or you have not been cleared to land yet, give them a hint.

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