Andries Gouws Posted October 15, 2019 at 06:33 PM Posted October 15, 2019 at 06:33 PM Sjoe......ive got no words....... NO AFV SUPPORT for IMAC for XPLANE 11....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Oliver Posted October 15, 2019 at 07:37 PM Posted October 15, 2019 at 07:37 PM I have some words even if you dont.... Have you read any of the other threads on the matter? Swift currently provide an Alpha that does : https://dev.swift-project.org/phame/post/view/17/swift_and_afv/ The Xsquawkbox developer is currently finishing off his implementation too. Have fun with AFV when you get on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Buske 978885 Posted October 20, 2019 at 07:31 PM Posted October 20, 2019 at 07:31 PM I have to agree with the OP though. A week has p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed with AFV online and there has been no update to the AFV standalone or XSB or XPilot. Mac and Linux users are left out here. Swift is a pain to use and full of issues. But well, I stopped caring. I am flying on IVAO for now. The Linux client works fine and there are no issues. Eventually I will return to flying on VATSIM, once this is solved. Oh, I know that VATSIM is a free service and that workforce, etc. is volunteer... but I am still disappointed. Leaving out the Mac and Linux community was a bad move. AFV should have come online once ALL tools were in a working state so that everyone could enjoy it, instead of just a part of the community. It would have been easier to wait a bit longer than to see most people enjoying it and being left out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Brown Posted October 21, 2019 at 11:17 AM Posted October 21, 2019 at 11:17 AM A week has p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed with AFV online and there has been no update to the AFV standalone or XSB or XPilot. Mac and Linux users are left out here. Swift is a pain to use and full of issues. Not sure where you’re getting that info. In the past week: XPilot - six updates posted AFV Stand-alone - at least 2 updates AFV Server - devs continue to work to the detriment of their health to get a stable platform. Swift - I don’t know the exact number , but given the last update to the alpha was 18/10, it’s had at least one update this week. But well, I stopped caring. I am flying on IVAO for now. The Linux client works fine and there are no issues. Eventually I will return to flying on VATSIM, once this is solved. Have seen a couple of posts like this and I have the same attitude as you *waves goodbye* You have two options at this point. 1 - Help Roland, Klaus and Matt (Swift Devs) by getting on their discord, working out why swift doesn’t work, provide feedback, help them improve it. 2 - Sit tight and wait for Chris Collins to finish XSquawkbox with AFV integration Network Supervisor | C1 | P1 VATSIM UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestor Perez Posted October 21, 2019 at 11:30 AM Posted October 21, 2019 at 11:30 AM Touché Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted October 21, 2019 at 12:10 PM Posted October 21, 2019 at 12:10 PM And what is one week? That's no time, there are more important topics in our world that should give us reason to be disappointed or worried. Please get your priorities in life right. And enjoy IVAO. Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Buske 978885 Posted October 21, 2019 at 02:06 PM Posted October 21, 2019 at 02:06 PM Maybe I have expressed myself wrongly. With no updates, I referred to no update which makes xsb or XPilot to work on Linux. Helping out on Swift is kind of pointless. I have been on their Discord for a while and there is not really any support. Plus, the point is that I don't want to use Swift. I want to use XSB. I have been using XSB for years without a single issue and I own and fly payware aircraft, which integrate CPDL and VATSIM into the cockpit. However, this integration only works with XSB. Also, I strongly disagree with Andreas Fuchs. One week is a long time for a platform of the size of IVAO, where a lot of people, in fact two entire communities (Linux and Mac) are being left out and deprived of the use of the network. The excuse is that swift is working... but it is not. It is Alpha Software and it is generally a bad idea to force people to use a specific platform, they don't really want to you. If you guys ever look at Discord, nobody is recommending swift. Even your own VATSTAR Training Department clearly states "I strongly recommend that you do not use swift, as it is complicated and problematic. You should use XPilot or XSB unless you have absolutely no other choice... Posts like that are seen on pretty much every server I am on... MagKnight developers server, QVirtual servers, FTW servers... It is not just my personal opinion. I realize that things now can't be changed, but it remains quite a disappointing move, planning and preparing everything for years, just to leave a big part of the VATSIM community out. The proper way would have been to have it work for everyone on release, even though it takes a bit longer... or have an updated client ready within the week after launch. People would have been fine with it. Also I want to point out, that I did not mention I leave VATSIM for any ranting or to show off. It is just a fact, that I cannot use VATSIM because I have no access to voice chat. Hence, my only option is to fly on IVAO with voice until such a point where I can use the VATSIM network with all its functionality. Seeing that I have close to 1000 hours on VATSIM and close to 100 on IVAO shows clearly, which network I prefer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Bartels Posted October 22, 2019 at 08:54 PM Posted October 22, 2019 at 08:54 PM Ok. So we will halt release on our next product for the 98% (78,400) of our users for the 1600 exclusively Mac and Linux based users. Appreciate the feedback! You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Forever and always "Just the events guy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Buske 978885 Posted October 22, 2019 at 09:35 PM Posted October 22, 2019 at 09:35 PM Ok. So we will halt release on our next product for the 98% (78,400) of our users for the 1600 exclusively Mac and Linux based users. Appreciate the feedback! I think that - given the long time planning goes - it should have been well possible to release AFV for all users. After all, you are not inventing new software. XSB already exists and just needs some changes to include the AFV codecs so it works without the standalone client. In my opinion it's not a big deal. Regarding the arguments, Windows users are the majority... it's always coming up, when Mac or Linux users raise their voices. It's also always used as an excuse for no or delayed releases. Just because some parts of your community are a minority, it does not mean that they can just be ignored. There are a lot of those 1000 something users of the network, who have a lot of hours and who spent a lot of years on and with VATSIM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Oliver Posted October 23, 2019 at 08:33 PM Posted October 23, 2019 at 08:33 PM What do you want us to do? Tie Chris Collins to a chair and force him to update XSB before we launch? Unfortunately hes been very busy with real life (like alot of the volunteers) and has only just now found the time to help. Good progress being made, dont worry it wont take long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestor Perez Posted October 23, 2019 at 08:36 PM Posted October 23, 2019 at 08:36 PM Sounds like a good move tbh Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Buske 978885 Posted October 23, 2019 at 11:03 PM Posted October 23, 2019 at 11:03 PM What do you want us to do? Tie Chris Collins to a chair and force him to update XSB before we launch? Unfortunately hes been very busy with real life (like alot of the volunteers) and has only just now found the time to help. Good progress being made, dont worry it wont take long. Sounds like some good news. Really wish for xsb to be around soon to get back into the network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommi Karkkainen 1322309 Posted October 26, 2019 at 06:13 PM Posted October 26, 2019 at 06:13 PM Ok. So we will halt release on our next product for the 98% (78,400) of our users for the 1600 exclusively Mac and Linux based users. Appreciate the feedback! Matthew, VATSIM absolutely did drop the ball here. It's the swift developers who picked it up, and we're all very lucky that they were able to do that so quickly after the AFV rollout. You don't get to say that there was just a delay for Mac and Linux users in this case. A key feature of the entire network was dropped for these users and it happened by surprise, considering that VATSIM's NOTAMs failed to mention it. All the email said that the new codec will finally be released, and that a new client would take care of voice communications until the pilot clients catch up. No systems requirements were mentioned in the manuals. Was it unreasonable to expect it to work on all platforms based on that? Now then. The worst parts of the fire have been put out: the most recent release of swift seems quite stable and those of us who actually like swift are able to enjoy AFV. So why am I still mad? Or, as Gary put it: What do you want us to do? I would like VATSIM, at the very least, to acknowledge that things should have been done a bit differently. Any of these would have been re[Mod - Happy Thoughts]uring: "We're sorry that we were not able to coordinate the launch of AFV with pilot client developers in a way that would have enabled Mac and Linux users to participate immediately." "We indeed did fail to develop the AFV client for non-Windows users. We will try harder to accommodate all users in the future." Or at the very least: "We're sorry that we did not accurately communicate the OS support for the AFV client prior to its launch." VATSIM is a network based on volunteer work, but that doesn't mean a certain level of professionalism isn't expected. Instead, we get the VP of marketing and communications reply to us in a sarcastic tone. Seriously, Matthew, your message above says "We do not need to care about you because the majority is happy, and you're just causing us more work. Don't expect anything better in the future, either." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted October 27, 2019 at 01:32 PM Posted October 27, 2019 at 01:32 PM You guys are absolutely right, I have to apologize for my last post. Considering the thousands of Dollars that VATSIM is collecting with the fees that members have to pay each month, we should have delivered a much better product in time according to your demands. Gary, this really incompetent developer, should have quit his real world job and worked exclusivey on AFV, especially as we pay him around 250k before tax a year!! This post could contain traces of sarcasm. Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommi Karkkainen 1322309 Posted October 27, 2019 at 03:39 PM Posted October 27, 2019 at 03:39 PM The problem with sarcasm and straw man arguments is that they make it very difficult to have a serious conversation. The "it's free so it doesn't matter", used like this, is just putting fingers in your ears and going LA LA LA LA LA. It's the go-to excuse that is heard every time something inconvenient or uncomfortable is brought up. If we want a network that goes forwards and improves, there has to be a culture of constant improvement. That includes identifying problems, being open for justified critique, admitting mistakes, learning from them and moving on. It's nothing personal. I do not, have not, and will not say that any developer should have put more hours into this, even though Andreas seems to want to twist my words in that direction. This is more about the way of doing things - the culture within the VATSIM community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestor Perez Posted October 27, 2019 at 04:15 PM Posted October 27, 2019 at 04:15 PM Tommi, the point you're trying to make might be valid, but the way you have approached it definitely isn't. Since AFV's release, you have had a swift alpha version at your disposal. Yes, it is indeed an alpha version and yes, it does have bugs, but that's the whole point of an alpha version: having EVERYONE in the community (yourself included) reporting what those bugs are so that they are quickly fixed. VATSIM has therefore had at least one option to use ANY simulator with iMac since the first moments of AFV. As Gary said, the XSB developer has been working hard to get AFV implemented, but he has other more important real life commitments to deal with first, so until then, you can either keep on moaning about how it's been done and not fly online until XSB iis released with AFV, or you can use swift and help by reporting bugs. Sure, it might not be the client you most like to use, but it is the only other option you have (and again, it IS an option, so there's no reason for you to say that "We indeed did fail to develop the AFV client for non-Windows users"). I also don't really understand why you believe Matt's post means that "We do not need to care about you because the majority is happy, and you're just causing us more work. Don't expect anything better in the future, either.". If that's really what it means, why would there be a forum section for non-Windows users and why would there be Mac/Linux-compatible client being worked on? In the future, I recommend changing your tone. Posts like yours are likely to be ignored and often will have no effect or have an effect opposite to that which you want We are always looking forward to hearing feedback and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism (not the same as positive feedback), but this is not the place for destructive criticism. Regards, Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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