Airplanes sink into the ground

[Georg Stunic 813923]

The problem of sinking and hovering planes still exists. Wasn't it the case that the system update should solve the problem, or did I remember it wrong?

[Torben Andersen]

Scenery issue can hardly be VATSIMs fault. I would suggest you got to the appropiate support forum (P3D, ORBX,.....)

 

regards

Torben

[Georg Stunic 813923]

Scenery issue can hardly be VATSIMs fault. I would suggest you got to the appropiate support forum (P3D, ORBX,.....)

 

regards

Torben

 

I'm sorry, but as far as I know, I didn't blame Vatsim for that - I was simply asking if there is a solution from the network side.

Obviously you do not know the answer to that.

[Daniel Mckee]

Aircraft elevation issues using CSL's in X-Plane (if that is your situation) is not predominantly caused by scenery although if different scenery is used for the same airport it can have that effect. The issue is mainly due to the ways that clients such as Squawkbox, Swift, Vpilot and now Xpilot process these files. Bluebell CSL's have an optional modified file which provides alternative vertical offsets for various aircraft which can fix the issue (but not always). The query there is that those modified files were made for IVAO network so I don't know if they are 100% effective on Vatsim? The issue of CSL files is also one of the dark arts as nobody appears to know much about their construction; even aircraft payware retailers rarely if ever include CSL files for use in multiplayer situations!!!

[Andreas Fuchs]

Hi Georg,

 

what pilot client are you using? What SIM?

 

If you are using swift and X-Plane, this client will always try to move other pilots and their aircraft to the very same level of your scenery. When using the BlueBell CSL (Common Shape Library, model set) in X-Plane, then you need to install the "Vertical Offset Fix" as the very LAST step, after extracting all BB models.

[Georg Stunic 813923]

I am on X-Plane using the new xPilot client. The BlueBell CSL is installed and the "Vertical offset fix" has been installed on top.

 

Looks like there is no solution for that problem...

[Andreas Fuchs]

Please report it to the developers. Do they have another direct channel, like Discord or a feedback form?

 

I know that in swift we luckily do not have this problem, but I guess that xPilot will get this to work, too.

[Georg Stunic 813923]

Good idea... I will try to send a notification. If it works in Swift at least it is possible to solve.

Let´s see...

[Daniel Mckee]

Andreas, I am surprised to hear that Swift does not have these vertical offset problems. Is this only when all the pilots in a given Swift multiplayer session have IVAO vert offset files installed? Or does Swift have it's own algorithm? If it does use it's own algorithm then why do I still see other aircraft either floating or sinking?

If all my multiplayer friends used Swift and the offset files then I would probably see them ok but of course with the plethora of clients being used now if the other pilots don't use same client AND CSL's files then the issue is impossible I would think??

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Correcting for variations in ground elevation from one pilot to the next (due to different scenery meshes, different options regarding runway sloping, or different sims entirely) is a function of your pilot client. When another player is on the ground nearby, your pilot client will attempt to adjust their elevation so that to they visually appear to be on the ground where YOUR sim renders the ground, regardless of such differences.

 

Swift in my opinion currently does the best job with this. xPilot does it to some degree, but as a brand-new client, its algorithm needs some work. XSB v1.3 doesn't do this well (or at all -- not sure) although its developer claimed in a July 2018 blog post that he had some battle-tested improvements in the works. None of them do it perfectly, and it's probably fair to say that all will improve given time.

 

One thing that helps is to ensure all of the CSL models are consistent with their reported center-point or origin-point. The Vertical Offset file overwrites some CSL definitions to ensure consistency among all of the Bluebell models in this regard. It helps the pilot clients be able to refer to the correct centerpoint when calculating adjustments, but it does not make their algorithms work perfectly.

 

Hope that helps make things more clear.

[Daniel Mckee]

Understand that this is not a Vatsim issue. Just spent a few hours with a colleague on line. X-Plane 11.35, default airport (YHML) where neither of us have any addon scenery, where we both have the same alpilot mesh, same aircraft, same CSL file with IVAO Offsets, using XSquawkbox and still elevation issues. Did not have this problem at all with FSInn. Maybe we can do away with the CSL system and adopt that part of the FSInn programme?

[Robert Shearman Jr]

(1) FSInn developers disappeared around 10 years ago, so, good luck getting their source code.

 

(2) FSInn is for FS9/FSX/P3D, which uses a completely different method from X-Plane for rendering AI traffic and other multiplayer users. Also consider that when "everyone was using FSInn," "everyone" was also using FS9 and FSX. Fewer variations existed.

 

Trust me, dude, if it was as easy as you seem to think it is, it would be done by now.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

where neither of us have any addon scenery, where we both have the same alpilot mesh, same aircraft, same CSL file with IVAO Offsets, using XSquawkbox and still elevation issues.

Interesting. That's a good test and might be useful for the developer of xPilot to know. Were your weather settings the same? It's possible that the dataref xPilot uses for this is related to pressure altitude versus "true" altitude -- and might mean an additional calculation is required to normalize it, or that there's a different X-Plane dataref he should be using instead. I'll make sure he gets the message to look at that.

 

EDIT: oh, wait, I see you said you were using XSquawkBox for that test. So what I just said about possibly using the wrong dataref or needing to apply a normalization for pressure altitude might apply to XSquawkBox. But XSB v1.3 didn't do a very good job of normalizing ground altitudes anyway, and its developer claimed last July that he had made some improvements in an as-yet-unreleased update. So, for that client it may be best to wait for the next version release to worry much about troubleshooting that.