Why bother flying on VATSIM?

[Justin Shannon]

Guess the issue still resides, not impressed at all.

 

Noticed the frame rate top right corner 55fps steady...

https://imgshare.io/image/KHOHt

 

Notice the bandwith on my fiber sub line symmetric 300/300

 

https://imgshare.io/image/KHRZS

The f-act reading in your screenshot only shows that X-Plane was rendering at 55fps at that very specific moment in time. You received the warning message because X-Plane's frame rate dropped below 20fps for at least 10 consecutive seconds. Also, your internet speeds have nothing to do with this...

[Mike Lehkamp]

Wight the new VATSIM frame rate restriction for X-Plane, why should those lagging users be allowed to fly on VATSIM. Why should we not just allow users which arguable have the same connection/simulation speed, same airports etc.

If VATSIM clients then continue to disconnect all users based if their frame rates dip below 20 or not, then why should these users be allowed to be on VATSIM at all. Why not just create a network of high end PC's that eliminate all others, why do we need those users that cannot afford these huge upgrades races?

 

Well immersion you say? Let me ask you all this, what is more realistic of simulation speed for ATC when sequencing or planes dropping out of the scope like they crashed in real life. How annoying will it be to have 5 airplanes on final approach where 3 of them suddenly disappear due to being disconnected. Where lay the limit of realism, were lay the immersion and most important why where lay the unity. Is it more important to have ATC than pilots, are they not a perfect marriage?

 

One can say game immersion is now crumbled by technology, why do we need VATSIM at all then? Well I can only speak for myself when I say that immersion is realism and realism is immersion. I want as many other users to interact with other people regardless of hardware. If I then cannot log on and complete a flight from A to B without being disconnected, why then bother using that network at all? Is it a conflict of interest or conflict of technology. Is it the ATC software or the pilots clients that is the source of the issue, why can't we fix them both without disconnecting users.

 

There are most likely a solution to the problem!

 

We should look inwards and figure out what is truly wrong. If there is a particular group of users that causes this issue, we shouldn't just remove them temporary or even completely, one is not better than the other.

 

I truly hope an healthy discussion can grow, flourish and prosper into something beautiful that fits all users of this excellent network. A pure network for all users that do not single out users depending on wealth, availability or even personal stupidity when it comes to their "MUST HAVE" technolust or their love for aviation game immersion.

 

Let's connect, not disconnect!

 

Tom, are you that guy in the pickup, that everyone talks about flipping off the McDonald's drive-thru girl because your order wasn't first?

 

Sir, there are many folks still using a multitude of simulation platforms for various reasons. I applaud VATSIM for being inclusive.

 

Michael

[Mike Lehkamp]

Never had that happen to me on any network but VATSIM..

 

Simple. Go back to your superior "network" and leave VATSIM. For the love of God..............

 

Michael

[Mike Lehkamp]

Hi Tom,

 

Something caused a glitch for a split second. As to what it was who knows except xplane responded to it and slowed down. Have you submitted your being less than impressed at it's authors?

 

Meanwhile, xPilot merely reported the issue to you and a second later was on it's merry way.

 

[Marc Eijkens]

The titles of your forum posts are always on point Tom, reminds me of this cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ic. What have we done to you to deserve all this criticism.

[Arthur Melton]

never had all this bother with FS9 {FS2004}

[Robert Shearman Jr]

never had all this bother with FS9 {FS2004}

Windows 97 was perfect as-is, too. Wonder why they keep bothering to update things.

[Dhruv Kalra]

never had all this bother with FS9 {FS2004}

Ah yes, dynamite analysis from the guy who routinely wishes he could ignore ATC. Given that attitude, the topic title certainly applies.

 

This is an X-Plane specific issue. Stay in your lane.

[Arthur Melton]

Wow, The other day a controller controlled my approach to Darwin. Couldn't talk to him on voice radio but texted OK on chat.

[Krisztian Buss]

On 1/26/2020 at 11:24 PM, Tom Knudsen said:

 

 

I wouldn't use that horrible simulator if my life depended on it.

 

PS

I have no issues with frame rate

Spec:

Intel i9-9900K @5.0, Asus Maximus XI Formula, Asus RTX2080TI OC Strix, 64GB Gkill Trident Z

Samsung EVO 970 m2

Samsung EVO 970 m2

Samsung EVO 970 SSD

 

But I see many do and try several fixes just to get a few more FPS.. I am fond of FPS for immersion, at least 50 should be the standard if I got to choose. But sadly we cannot all afford a 5700+ dollar computer setup.

So for many 30 is max, and why should VATSIM then punish them?

 

Think that is the essence in the discussion. As an C1 ATC I also see the other side of the problem, I see the ATC side. But I also understand there is a prolonged timeperiod for making the clients work as it is intended. That may be why there is incidents where people get disconnected. Just check FlightDeck2Sim's latest streams using XPilot. So perhaps when the tech is good enough, we should be ok. Untill then we should set the FPS limit to 25 at least.

 

 

 

Not seen this, thank you for pointing it out and I will do a thorough search, thank you for information.

hope this is like a satire thread or something cos its hard to decide for me... 

btw you run CFD or rendering software or what do you need 64G memory for? 

[Krisztian Buss]

On 1/26/2020 at 3:34 PM, Anastasios Mpithas said:

I have seen this bit over and over again and it is getting VERY tiring.

If your setup doesn't meet the requirements, don't come here and say aaah VATSIM just wants those with high end PCs.

It is not our(= VATSIM community's) problem that your setup can't handle the requirements of X-Plane.

Get FSX. It is almost 3 times cheaper than X-Plane and it doesn't have the problem that makes ATC lives harder.

On a steam sale, it costs as much as 3 coffees.

huh?

[Krisztian Buss]

On 1/27/2020 at 6:10 AM, Kirk Christie said:

Unless you have never ever been on another multiplayer gaming network in the last 20 + years, then getting booted out of a network because of low computer performance should not be new to any one.

 

Vatsim Members: VATSIM needs to upgrade its network to get with the times.

VATSIM: makes changes too network which boots off slow performing connections.

VATSIM Members:

they 99% getting booted bcos of low network performance, not PC power. which is completely legit. no sane gamer would go on a network under 30 fps to get humiliated.

the real solution is vatsim and ivao start pressuring the sim developers to hire actual programmers and not trying to have grandma or the cleaning lady do the coding lol...

that way they may soon get to the level of 10 year old mainstream games in regard of performance, optimization and especially graphics engine. 

[Tobias Dammers]

At the risk of sounding like an old record:

The "XPlane disconnect on low FPS" thing isn't actually about FPS. No other sim gets booted from the network for exposing low frame rates. These are flightsims, not twitch-twitchy FPS games, so frame rates as low as 15 FPS can be perfectly flyable still. And more importantly, you're only hurting yourself flying with low FPS - after all, the *actual* FPS on VATSIM itself is literally 0.2 FPS (really). As long as your aircraft does what it's supposed to do, you're good.

The reason XPlane clients disconnect you if your FPS is too low is because XPlane, unlike all the other sims out there, will slow down simulation time when FPS drops below 20 FPS. Which means that the aircraft no longer does what it's supposed to do. At 15 FPS, sim time is slowed down 25%; but real-world time, and thus VATSIM time, keeps ticking normally, and that means that when your ASI says "200 knots", your actual speed on the network is only 150 knots - but you will be blissfully unaware, because your sim, apart from running in slow motion, will still give you a consistent view of your slowed-down world.

And that's a problem. You're not just looking at a slideshow, you're also flying in slow motion. Now imagine being a controller trying to sequence you into a tight approach stream, and telling you to maintain 200 knots, but you're really only doing 150. There goes your separation, ATC has to figure out what went wrong, they have to take you out of the stream and try again, or they have to work everyone else around you, in short, your time-dilated sim is ruining things for everyone else. That's why time dilation is only allowed with ATC permission on VATSIM, and that's why you get disconnected when your sim dilates time for whatever reason.

As for the "pressure sim devs" part: this has been tried, and the XPlane devs have made it clear that they have no intention to change the way the sim works. If you want a time-dilation-free experience, you have to set your sim up so that it never dips below 20 fps.

[Andreas Fuchs]

1 hour ago, Tobias Dammers said:

telling you to maintain 200 knots, but you're really only doing 150

Make it more drastic: you are really doing 60 knots instead of 180 or 200! That's a huge difference and will destroy the sequence that ATC is trying to build on approach.

[Tobias Dammers]

17 hours ago, Andreas Fuchs said:

Make it more drastic: you are really doing 60 knots instead of 180 or 200! That's a huge difference and will destroy the sequence that ATC is trying to build on approach.

60 knots instead of 200 would mean you're running at 6 FPS. Possible, but even I would find that highly disruptive.

[Andreas Fuchs]

22 minutes ago, Tobias Dammers said:

60 knots instead of 200 would mean you're running at 6 FPS. Possible, but even I would find that highly disruptive.

Happened regularly! I once had a pilot who was flying from London to Stuttgart in Germany. It took him 30 minutes to fly from the Luxembourg area to Karlsruhe. Go figure!

[John McMurdo]

I totally understand the issue with XP11 and how it affects ATC,  and although I found it frustrating  until I managed to find settings which kept fps above 30 and which airports to avoid,  I accepted it as my problem and not the fault of VATSIM.  I am only kicking myself now for not spending an extra £500 on a better graphics card for the PC I only bought last year. Although I think I mentioned it in another post, I had not discovered XP11 until after I had bought my new PC, so at that time I had no need for a top end graphics card. Maybe next year I will buy me a new one.

[john charles]

I got the fsx custom edition on cd and works fine..it only cost 20 dollars or sterling 16 pounds..Only snag is aircraft choice  is limited, but you can add from various places online but i wont advertise..