David Cross Posted February 14, 2020 at 10:03 PM Posted February 14, 2020 at 10:03 PM Hello. I'm not new to Online flying, but I am new to flying online overseas. I'm very comfortable with USA operations and how the airspace works. I made my first attempt at a Vatsim event overseas. It was a lot of fun and the controllers were very nice and patient with this new guy. I didn't understand the [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned star, so I requested vectors to final. I have a Navigraph chart subscription and current nav data. Here is the scenario. I was flying into LFPG ( Paris ) The Center controller [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned me a STAR which I couldn't find. I requested he text me the STAR name, which he did. The star he texted was "BIBAX-W". So I'm like okay, I'll look it up. Well it didn't exist. The only STARs which were close were named BIBA8 with a letter at the end which could of been a D, E, or P etc... So in a panic I didn't know which one of those would apply. So I was vectored. So now looking back, I guess he was saying use "BIBA8W"?? The last Waypoint on my filed flight plan was BIBAX. So it would make sense to use BIBA8W I guess. So I guess my question is, why didn't he text me the actual name of the STAR? I'm sure this is common, but it was my first time, and I want to be better informed for my next overseas adventure. Thanks to those who provided ATC today. It was a blast with all the foreign accents and in some cases some people were talking in their native languages. Really made it immersive. I will be doing more. Thanks, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted February 14, 2020 at 11:59 PM Posted February 14, 2020 at 11:59 PM Hi Dave, take a look at your Jeppesen/Navigraph charts: alongside with the full name of the STAR you'll find the FMS coding in brackets, in your case BIBAX 8W [bIBA8W]. The reason for this is that the number of characters and digits is limited to six due to FMS-coding, it's an ancient protocol... Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Meese Posted February 15, 2020 at 10:24 AM Posted February 15, 2020 at 10:24 AM We live in modern times, with restricted characters on our simulated 1980s computer architecture. Navigraph has a filtering feature on top of the list of charts for your selected aerodrome, so with some of those endless STAR-lists for certain European airports, just start typing in the first few letters there and it'll filter down to only relevant charts. Like so: https://i.imgur.com/utbrEEW.png In Europe, most of the time , your STAR will be named as the last point on your route plus the number-letter identifier. Exceptions exist, like here in the UK where you still find some named after the holding stack they lead to (Like BNN arrivals to EGLL), but thankfully they're now in the process of replacing those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Cross Posted February 15, 2020 at 04:12 PM Author Posted February 15, 2020 at 04:12 PM Ah. Very interesting!. Thank you both for your explanations. That does help. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted February 15, 2020 at 04:44 PM Posted February 15, 2020 at 04:44 PM In Europe, most of the time , your STAR will be named as the last point on your route plus the number-letter identifier. I had to read this twice, because on the first attempt I read "will be named as the last point on your STAR route" To re-phrase it: in most European countries STARs are named after the points where they begin, not where they terminate. One hint for your flights to German airports: by standard, when both "STARs" and "RNAV Transitions" exist (e.g. EDDF Frankfurt "UNOKO 2G STAR" vs. "UNOKO25N Transition"), always expect and use an RNAV Transition. Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Cross Posted February 15, 2020 at 05:34 PM Author Posted February 15, 2020 at 05:34 PM In Europe, most of the time , your STAR will be named as the last point on your route plus the number-letter identifier. I had to read this twice, because on the first attempt I read "will be named as the last point on your STAR route" To re-phrase it: in most European countries STARs are named after the points where they begin, not where they terminate. One hint for your flights to German airports: by standard, when both "STARs" and "RNAV Transitions" exist (e.g. EDDF Frankfurt "UNOKO 2G STAR" vs. "UNOKO25N Transition"), always expect and use an RNAV Transition. Thanks. That would of really confused me lol. I copied that into my notes. Thanks. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauri Uusitalo Posted March 5, 2020 at 02:10 PM Posted March 5, 2020 at 02:10 PM You were flying into LFPG and then ask about STARs in UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted March 5, 2020 at 02:43 PM Posted March 5, 2020 at 02:43 PM @Lauri: you are more than 2 weeks late to this discussion and the only thing you do is throw accusations at the OP? That's not very constructive Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauri Uusitalo Posted March 6, 2020 at 06:58 AM Posted March 6, 2020 at 06:58 AM Hello, yes I am late and perhaps a bit harsh on OP, sorry for both. But just wondering where the UK came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted March 6, 2020 at 09:48 AM Posted March 6, 2020 at 09:48 AM No problem. The OP wrote "UK area" and France is definitely next to the UK. He probably should have asked for STARs "in Central Europe". Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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