Flight Level Reporting

[Robert Bodner 940061]

In the US, flight levels below FL180 (18000) are referred to some value such as 13000 --In europe they are some thing different

 

Is there some simple reporting of flight levels in Europe below FL180

 

A fellow pilot indicated to me as I was flying at 14000 ft and reporting on Unicom I was at 14000 ft --I should have said FL140

 

Is there some place I can get the proper "rules" for reporting FL in Europe

 

Thanks for any help here

[Paul O'Donnell 969350]

Robert, I think that it depends on the transition level in the country/airspace you are flying in. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I'm not 100% sure of this myself. But in the UK I think the transition level is 5000ft or 6000ft therefore any height above this is refered to as FL080 etc.

So basically it depends where you fly. but I wouldn;t quote me on it.

[Wencil Stanek 978870]

Its different in every country, and on rare occasions, its even different at every AIRPORT within the same country (Burma)!!

 

The US Dept of Defense puts out supplements that outline each country's differences- they're called the Area Planning guides. You can get them online for free. For Europe, you want the AP/2.

[Martin Georg 811874]

Hello,

 

it´s indeed an issue of transition levels. In the US, the transition level is fixed at FL180. In Europe, the transition level depends on local pressure, and is defined by the approach controller. Usually in central Europe, with pressure at QNH 1013.25hpa or above, expect FL60 as the transition level. In case the the pressure is below that value, it´s FL70. On rare occasions with very high or low pressure, it may go up to FL80, or down to FL50 even.

 

This is only a rule of thumb, and may differ at certain places in Europe. If you´re in doubt, ask the controller.Generally spoken, as long as ATC keeps telling you to descend to flightlevel, keep your altimeter on standard pressure. With the first altitude below the transition level, ATC is oblieged to tell you the local pressure also. At this time you know that you have to adjust your altimeter.

 

Pretty easy, eh?

[Daniel Roesen]

Actually, it's QNH 1014 which starts the FL60 regime, not 1013. Bites me everytime. Thinking is prolly: "yeah, at 1013 QNH=QNE, but if QNH changes to 1012, all my aircraft on 5000ft and FL60 had 1000ft separation, now suddenly don't anymore".

 

I guess the 1 hPa is kind of a "buffer".

 

But in general, Martin's perfectly right. Altitude = "x feet on local QNH", flight level = "x feet on 1013/29.92". If the controller sends you to an altitude, dial in the QNH/altimeter he gives you. If he sends you to a flight level, use QNE (standard 1013hPa/29.92").

 

Best regards,

Daniel

[Stephen Murphy 912359]

This is something I see a lot of problems with. Where for a start some pilots keep local QNH above the TL and loose their 1000ft vertical separation in some cases. As part of a training initiative tonight I will be speaking to VATeir controllers about the importance of altimetry and make sure they know how to calculate QFE, TL's and see why it is important to do so.

[Luca Vetturi 874351]

If he sends you to a flight level, use QNE (standard 1013hPa/29.92").

 

Sorry Daniel, but I don't think that QNE is 1013.25 hPa...

 

QNE is the value (meters or feet) you can read on your altimeter if you settle with your airplane on the ground (at the aerodrome elevation) and set it to 1013.25 hPa (29.92 for the others)

[Daniel Roesen]

Sorry Daniel, but I don't think that QNE is 1013.25 hPa...

 

QNE is the value (meters or feet) you can read on your altimeter if you settle with your airplane on the ground (at the aerodrome elevation) and set it to 1013.25 hPa (29.92 for the others)

 

There are slight differences in definition, my usage of QNE was more colloquial indeed:

 

QNE: common usage accepts QNE as the ISA Standard Pressure setting of 1013.2 hPa. However another definition of QNE is the 'altitude displayed on the altimeter at touchdown with 1013 set on the altimeter sub-scale'. Also referred to as the 'landing altimeter setting'.

 

I was following this "common usage".

 

Best regards,

Daniel

[Wencil Stanek 978870]

Good point Luca, but in reality, who cares what the altimeter reads while you're on the ground with the standard datum set? Doesn't really do you much good there

 

Is there any situation where a controller would give out a QFE? Or that the pilot would actually use QFE, instead of doing the (usually) simple subraction in his head on QNH?

[Alexander Nolting 887789]

Good point Luca, but in reality, who cares what the altimeter reads while you're on the ground with the standard datum set? Doesn't really do you much good there

 

Is there any situation where a controller would give out a QFE? Or that the pilot would actually use QFE, instead of doing the (usually) simple subraction in his head on QNH?

 

 

Yes, you just need to fly in the former USSR states like russia, ukraine... and other metric airspaces here on VATSIM.

[Luca Vetturi 874351]

Or that the pilot would actually use QFE, instead of doing the (usually) simple subraction in his head on QNH?

 

If you for example are performing an instrumental approach procedure without having a radio-altimeter on board... you could "know" when you reach your minima looking at your height (I say height because you set the QFE into the altimeter)

 

In reali life (at least I can speak for Italy), all the Towers have monitors displaying QFE for each treshold:

 

[Ruth McTighe 824054]

Good point Luca, but in reality, who cares what the altimeter reads while you're on the ground with the standard datum set? Doesn't really do you much good there

 

Is there any situation where a controller would give out a QFE? Or that the pilot would actually use QFE, instead of doing the (usually) simple subraction in his head on QNH?

 

QFE is often used by VFR aircraft in the UK, esepcially when doing circuit practice. The military also use it quite a lot I believe

 

Ruth

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